Questions pondered at 6500 feet

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:nZDyf.708499$_o.552810@attbi_s71...

2. We often hear commercial airliners "cleared for the visual approach"
into thus-and-such an airport. However, we *also* often hear commercial
airliners "cleared for the ILS Rwy 14 approach" (for example) -- even
though conditions in the area are perfectly CAVU.

Since we haven't heard the airliner SAY they wanted an instrument
approach, how/why does the controller know to clear them for anything
other than the visual approach?

Inquiring minds, doncha know?


Use of an instrument approach simplifies establishing an arrival sequence.

Since we haven't heard the airliner SAY they wanted an instrument
approach, how/why does the controller know to clear them for anything
other than the visual approach?

Use of an instrument approach simplifies establishing an arrival sequence.

So this choice is entirely up to the controller?

Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the various
approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the commuter airlines we
usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight controllers on-board, with
all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at a moment's notice?)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newslEyf.701287$x96.296658@attbi_s72...

So this choice is entirely up to the controller?


Probably not. Understand that there are many airports where it generally
isn't necessary for the controller to establish an arrival sequence. The
need to do that implies a fair amount of traffic.



Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the
various approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the commuter
airlines we usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight controllers
on-board, with all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at a
moment's notice?)


Where's the pain? The approach in use will be on the ATIS, crews generally
have that information before they ever talk to approach control. And it is
a crew, it ain't one guy thumbing through a Jepp binder while trying to
hand-fly the airplane.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newslEyf.701287$x96.296658@attbi_s72...

So this choice is entirely up to the controller?


Probably not. Understand that there are many airports where it generally
isn't necessary for the controller to establish an arrival sequence. The
need to do that implies a fair amount of traffic.



Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the
various approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the commuter
airlines we usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight controllers
on-board, with all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at a
moment's notice?)


Where's the pain? The approach in use will be on the ATIS, crews generally
have that information before they ever talk to approach control. And it is
a crew, it ain't one guy thumbing through a Jepp binder while trying to
hand-fly the airplane.

While I agree, I also disagree.

Take LAS for instance. very few times out of the year is the
ceiling and visibility warranting of an ILS approach. Most of the time
they're under CAVU. ATIS almost always shows that visual approaches are
in use. However, as most commercial arrivals are on 25L, that tends to
be a problem in the evenings when the sun blinds the pilot and they
either can't see the field, or can't see the traffic in front of them.
So from there, controllers give the ILS approach.

Granted it's situational, and doesn't help or hinder
sequencing, but there you have it.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDy1AhyBkZmuMZ8L8RAkSHAJ4rRpfHomXiD6R0E4TiYJ zU7aUKOACfUXwQ
krc1zUGBMk6SQZmsxZzKEmM=
=x6Gr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 2006-01-16, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
Where's the pain? The approach in use will be on the ATIS, crews generally
have that information before they ever talk to approach control. And it is
a crew, it ain't one guy thumbing through a Jepp binder while trying to
hand-fly the airplane.

I also bet most of the crew know their regular approaches well, and
probably only pull out the plate to satisfy the airline's procedure.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

Jay Honeck wrote:

Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the various
approach plates, etc., at hand.

That's why all the pilots headed for the pointy end of that Delta or Continental
are carrying those big black cases.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

In article DlEyf.701287$x96.296658@attbi_s72,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the various
approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the commuter airlines we
usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight controllers on-board, with
all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at a moment's notice?)

actuallly, a lot of the commuter and RJ's have newer stuff than the larger
aircraft

--
Bob Noel
goodness - the NFL officials are making
the NHL officials look like geniuses

It isn't any problem for a professional crew to fly any
approach at the airports they use. Scheduled airlines may
use only a few dozen airports and have only a few dozen more
available airports that they can use in an emergency. Plus
they must be route qualified. The charts are organized and
it only takes a few moments to select and tune for a
different approach.

It is recommended that when flying to a destination, all the
available approach plates for the destination and the
alternate be located and placed on the clipboard.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Bob Noel" wrote in
message
...
| In article DlEyf.701287$x96.296658@attbi_s72,
| "Jay Honeck" wrote:
|
| Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to
keep all the various
| approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the
commuter airlines we
| usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight
controllers on-board, with
| all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at
a moment's notice?)
|
| actuallly, a lot of the commuter and RJ's have newer stuff
than the larger
| aircraft
|
| --
| Bob Noel
| goodness - the NFL officials are making
| the NHL officials look like geniuses
|

Jay Honeck wrote:

Since we haven't heard the airliner SAY they wanted an instrument
approach, how/why does the controller know to clear them for anything
other than the visual approach?

Use of an instrument approach simplifies establishing an arrival sequence.


So this choice is entirely up to the controller?

Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the various
approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the commuter airlines we
usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight controllers on-board, with
all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at a moment's notice?)

You can request a visual approach, or a contact approach or a different
published approach if you wish.

Matt

Jay Honeck wrote:

Since we haven't heard the airliner SAY they wanted an instrument
approach, how/why does the controller know to clear them for anything
other than the visual approach?

Use of an instrument approach simplifies establishing an arrival sequence.


So this choice is entirely up to the controller?

Seems like a giant pain for the flight crew, to have to keep all the various
approach plates, etc., at hand. (I'm assuming the commuter airlines we
usually hear don't have the sophisticated flight controllers on-board, with
all the pre-loaded approaches ready to be punched in at a moment's notice?)

The airlines have the plates for the airports that that particular type
of aircraft will fly into. For example we have Northwest fly here into
Billings. We get DC9's and Airbuses. NWA 747 pilots do not carry
approach plate for BIL. When the normal NWA flights show up they will
always fly the localizer and glide slope, they are required to if it is
available. Doesn't mean they fly the ILS it just means they must follow
those navaids.