Round Engines

The old days at Rhinebeck when the Cole Palen crowd were there are
remembered by many who frequented the place. The nostalgia of that operation
during those days ranks right up there with Pancho's out at Edwards. Both
places bring back some of the finest "just hanging out" moments in aviation
history in the United States.
I seem to remember some trouble going on there a few years back concerning
the running of the operation by a new board of directors at the museum but I
don't have a real handle on what it was all about.
Propping a Le' Rhone might have been a job for Arnold Swartzenegger at that
:-)))
Dudley

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:TISzf.1495$id.1100@trnddc04...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

Are you kidding George?

A saw some guys try to start a Camel once at Rhinebeck. They went through
the rigamarole of pulling it through and then Hercules (we'll call him)
started flipping the prop. It wouldn't even backfire. The poor guy rocked
that prop through about 20 times or so.

When he was worn out, another fellow came up to try his luck. He rocked up
on one leg and whipped the prop down and the engine fired right up.
Hercules was ready to beat the guy to death!

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...
The old days at Rhinebeck when the Cole Palen crowd were there are
remembered by many who frequented the place. The nostalgia of that
operation during those days ranks right up there with Pancho's out at
Edwards. Both places bring back some of the finest "just hanging out"
moments in aviation history in the United States.
I seem to remember some trouble going on there a few years back concerning
the running of the operation by a new board of directors at the museum but
I don't have a real handle on what it was all about.
Propping a Le' Rhone might have been a job for Arnold Swartzenegger at
that :-)))
Dudley

The new board wanted to close Rhinebeck and sell the land, the planes and
anything else worth a nickel. Not sure what changed their minds. Could be
Cole came back for a 'visit' and set them straight.


"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:TISzf.1495$id.1100@trnddc04...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

Are you kidding George?

A saw some guys try to start a Camel once at Rhinebeck. They went through
the rigamarole of pulling it through and then Hercules (we'll call him)
started flipping the prop. It wouldn't even backfire. The poor guy rocked
that prop through about 20 times or so.

When he was worn out, another fellow came up to try his luck. He rocked
up on one leg and whipped the prop down and the engine fired right up.
Hercules was ready to beat the guy to death!

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong
to
your slightly older self.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
news

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...
The old days at Rhinebeck when the Cole Palen crowd were there are
remembered by many who frequented the place. The nostalgia of that
operation during those days ranks right up there with Pancho's out at
Edwards. Both places bring back some of the finest "just hanging out"
moments in aviation history in the United States.
I seem to remember some trouble going on there a few years back
concerning the running of the operation by a new board of directors at
the museum but I don't have a real handle on what it was all about.
Propping a Le' Rhone might have been a job for Arnold Swartzenegger at
that :-)))
Dudley

The new board wanted to close Rhinebeck and sell the land, the planes and
anything else worth a nickel. Not sure what changed their minds. Could
be Cole came back for a 'visit' and set them straight.

I hope so. The place deserves some good treatment.
Wish the same held true for Pancho's. Last I heard of that it was a burned
out ruin sitting out there in the desert. I walked through what was left of
it once. It wasn't pretty.
Of course there's no real reason to preserve it. It would never be a tourist
attraction way out there, and the place was really only special to those who
went there during the early testing days at Edwards. If only those burned
out ruins could talk, a lot of history might become clear from what passed
back and forth at the bar the week before Yeager's trip through mach 1.
They ought to build a monument right in the middle of what's left of the bar
to George Welch. :-)
Dudley Henriques

Dudley

One story on Pancho.

Edwards wanted to either extend or build a new runway that would run
through her "establishment".

After going round and round with them she went to Washington and
talked to some of her old time cohorts there and that was the last
ever heard about tearing her place down for a new runway )

The Washington types she talked to were Lts and Captains when she
associated with them in the early days.

Sometimes it's all who you know.

Last time I was there was eating a steak and talking to Pancho when
half a dozen broads made up like Hollywood Starlets walked through the
room.

I ask what they were doing and was told to mind my own business )

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:14:11 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
news

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...
The old days at Rhinebeck when the Cole Palen crowd were there are
remembered by many who frequented the place. The nostalgia of that
operation during those days ranks right up there with Pancho's out at
Edwards. Both places bring back some of the finest "just hanging out"
moments in aviation history in the United States.
I seem to remember some trouble going on there a few years back
concerning the running of the operation by a new board of directors at
the museum but I don't have a real handle on what it was all about.
Propping a Le' Rhone might have been a job for Arnold Swartzenegger at
that :-)))
Dudley

The new board wanted to close Rhinebeck and sell the land, the planes and
anything else worth a nickel. Not sure what changed their minds. Could
be Cole came back for a 'visit' and set them straight.

I hope so. The place deserves some good treatment.
Wish the same held true for Pancho's. Last I heard of that it was a burned
out ruin sitting out there in the desert. I walked through what was left of
it once. It wasn't pretty.
Of course there's no real reason to preserve it. It would never be a tourist
attraction way out there, and the place was really only special to those who
went there during the early testing days at Edwards. If only those burned
out ruins could talk, a lot of history might become clear from what passed
back and forth at the bar the week before Yeager's trip through mach 1.
They ought to build a monument right in the middle of what's left of the bar
to George Welch. :-)
Dudley Henriques

"Big John" wrote in message
...
Dudley

One story on Pancho.

Edwards wanted to either extend or build a new runway that would run
through her "establishment".

After going round and round with them she went to Washington and
talked to some of her old time cohorts there and that was the last
ever heard about tearing her place down for a new runway )

The Washington types she talked to were Lts and Captains when she
associated with them in the early days.

Sometimes it's all who you know.

Last time I was there was eating a steak and talking to Pancho when
half a dozen broads made up like Hollywood Starlets walked through the
room.

I ask what they were doing and was told to mind my own business )

Big John

The story we got was that the powers that be at Edwards who took over after
the "old guys" were gone really did a number on her when the extension deal
was going on. The word was that the "fire" was very suspicious to say the
least.
I think Pancho kind of faded away after that and I heard she had moved out
into the desert up North a bit. The last I heard she had died all alone up
there living in a trailer.
I think Yeager and Hoover and some of the regulars kept in touch with her
for awhile .
Pancho's place was a real part of American aviation history. It's a damn
shame nobody tried to save at least part of it for posterity.
The problem with places like Pancho's is that their real value was in their
existence and in what that meant to the people who gathered there.
To those who survived those early days at Edwards, I'm sure the ghosts of
those people remain even to this day.
The average tourist wouldn't be able to "touch" this nostalgia, or
appreciate the memories of a place like Pancho's. Only those who lived
through those times and knew first hand what transpired there would have any
real appreciation for the site.
I remember places like Pancho's as special to me as I made my way through my
aviation career.
There was Trader Jon's in Pensacola for one.There's was a picture of Skip
Umstead and me tacked to the wall in back of the bar Skip was Blue Angel 1
in the old F4's and was killed at Lakehurst I was driving there to have
lunch with him and heard about the crash on the car radio. I know Bob Stumph
and a few of the Blue Angels tried to save the place, but it all came apart
somewhere along the line. It's a clothing store now. Sign of the passing
times I guess :-)) My picture from the bar is probably gathering dust with
the other artifacts from the old place waiting to be put into a Naval
aviation museum.
There was the Belvedere Hotel and Bar across the street from the main gate
at Pax River where we would meet and raise hell.
Many are gone now, but I can still see their faces and hear their laughter
once in a while in my fondest memories.
I guess it's this kind of thing that makes Pancho's so special.
There's something in Latin that sums it all up I guess;
"Sic Transit Gloria Mundi"
Dudley

Dudley

It's a shame we don't put more effort in saving some of the historical
places. Briton and some others put time and money in saving their
history for future generations. Makes me ashamed.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 22:32:17 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
Dudley

One story on Pancho.

Edwards wanted to either extend or build a new runway that would run
through her "establishment".

After going round and round with them she went to Washington and
talked to some of her old time cohorts there and that was the last
ever heard about tearing her place down for a new runway )

The Washington types she talked to were Lts and Captains when she
associated with them in the early days.

Sometimes it's all who you know.

Last time I was there was eating a steak and talking to Pancho when
half a dozen broads made up like Hollywood Starlets walked through the
room.

I ask what they were doing and was told to mind my own business )

Big John

The story we got was that the powers that be at Edwards who took over after
the "old guys" were gone really did a number on her when the extension deal
was going on. The word was that the "fire" was very suspicious to say the
least.
I think Pancho kind of faded away after that and I heard she had moved out
into the desert up North a bit. The last I heard she had died all alone up
there living in a trailer.
I think Yeager and Hoover and some of the regulars kept in touch with her
for awhile .
Pancho's place was a real part of American aviation history. It's a damn
shame nobody tried to save at least part of it for posterity.
The problem with places like Pancho's is that their real value was in their
existence and in what that meant to the people who gathered there.
To those who survived those early days at Edwards, I'm sure the ghosts of
those people remain even to this day.
The average tourist wouldn't be able to "touch" this nostalgia, or
appreciate the memories of a place like Pancho's. Only those who lived
through those times and knew first hand what transpired there would have any
real appreciation for the site.
I remember places like Pancho's as special to me as I made my way through my
aviation career.
There was Trader Jon's in Pensacola for one.There's was a picture of Skip
Umstead and me tacked to the wall in back of the bar Skip was Blue Angel 1
in the old F4's and was killed at Lakehurst I was driving there to have
lunch with him and heard about the crash on the car radio. I know Bob Stumph
and a few of the Blue Angels tried to save the place, but it all came apart
somewhere along the line. It's a clothing store now. Sign of the passing
times I guess :-)) My picture from the bar is probably gathering dust with
the other artifacts from the old place waiting to be put into a Naval
aviation museum.
There was the Belvedere Hotel and Bar across the street from the main gate
at Pax River where we would meet and raise hell.
Many are gone now, but I can still see their faces and hear their laughter
once in a while in my fondest memories.
I guess it's this kind of thing that makes Pancho's so special.
There's something in Latin that sums it all up I guess;
"Sic Transit Gloria Mundi"
Dudley

"Big John" wrote in message
...

Dudley

It's a shame we don't put more effort in saving some of the historical
places. Briton and some others put time and money in saving their
history for future generations. Makes me ashamed.

Big John

Yeah..it's a shame really. Of course the Brits actually fought their war
right over their heads. The people had, and still have such a high regard
for what happened during the BOB that they are more than willing to support
the historical effort to save the artifacts from the period.
It seems that in our country, a lot of the time developers and politicians
enter into the equation and the artifact goes into a museum while the real
estate where it all happened somehow magically turns into a shopping mall.
Of course there are exceptions although many times it's the work of private
donors that save a location of historical value to aviation.
Dudley

A few years ago I toured the Garber Facility in DC. They were in the middle
of restoring an original Newport that Cole Palen had donated after using it
for years at Rhinebeck. When they cut off the fabric, the entire tail fell
off! The fabric was all that was keeping it on. Must have been really
interesting there in the early days.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...
The old days at Rhinebeck when the Cole Palen crowd were there are
remembered by many who frequented the place. The nostalgia of that
operation during those days ranks right up there with Pancho's out at
Edwards. Both places bring back some of the finest "just hanging out"
moments in aviation history in the United States.
I seem to remember some trouble going on there a few years back concerning
the running of the operation by a new board of directors at the museum but
I don't have a real handle on what it was all about.
Propping a Le' Rhone might have been a job for Arnold Swartzenegger at
that :-)))
Dudley

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:TISzf.1495$id.1100@trnddc04...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

Are you kidding George?

A saw some guys try to start a Camel once at Rhinebeck. They went through
the rigamarole of pulling it through and then Hercules (we'll call him)
started flipping the prop. It wouldn't even backfire. The poor guy rocked
that prop through about 20 times or so.

When he was worn out, another fellow came up to try his luck. He rocked
up on one leg and whipped the prop down and the engine fired right up.
Hercules was ready to beat the guy to death!

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong
to
your slightly older self.