Round Engines

"Big John" wrote in message
...
Dudley

Names don't strike a bell. We, WADF, didn't have much contact with
East Coast, EADF.

My last F-89J flying was as Air Force Advisor to the Maine Air Guard.
With my MB-1 back ground helped them go Nuc (first Guard Sq to do so).

In the 'J' with the MB-1, I developed the head on attack and sold it
to ADC. Gave the bird a Pk of over 95%. Only bird to do head on's in
USAF as far as I know.

Enough war stories. I'm going to quit taking up band width and go to
bed.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````


John,

Fascinating thread...

I live in the Phoenix area (since late 1997) and had never heard of Luke
ever being closed.

Ironic that Luke prospers while Williams got the axe.

FWIW, they've just opened a great new GA terminal at Williams Gateway and
businesses continue to move into all the former AF facilities. The future
seems bright for "Willie" as a public airport.

Wonder why Luke and Williams' fortunes swung in opposite directions...?

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

Jay

Seems like there was a subdivision problem or Luke was encroaching on
something? Been so long ago.

When Korea started and after, they had to cut a path through the
airway going west from Phoenix to let the birds get to the gunnery
ranges down toward Yuma (think the ranges are now named for
Goldwater?). Remember some finger pointing between FAA and USAF before
things were settled.

Final agreement was (as I recall) they cut a low altitude gate (below
4000 ft) across the airway and the jets had to stay low going out and
let down and come back in at low altitude to get home.

Willie was out in the boon docks at that time so that was probably why
it was first choice to keep open unless it was a political decision
which we didn't know about.

I keep reading about things moving into Willie and flying activities
there now. Was sorry to see the USAF give it up (

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:42:05 -0700, "Jay Beckman"
wrote:

"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
Dudley

Names don't strike a bell. We, WADF, didn't have much contact with
East Coast, EADF.

My last F-89J flying was as Air Force Advisor to the Maine Air Guard.
With my MB-1 back ground helped them go Nuc (first Guard Sq to do so).

In the 'J' with the MB-1, I developed the head on attack and sold it
to ADC. Gave the bird a Pk of over 95%. Only bird to do head on's in
USAF as far as I know.

Enough war stories. I'm going to quit taking up band width and go to
bed.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````


John,

Fascinating thread...

I live in the Phoenix area (since late 1997) and had never heard of Luke
ever being closed.

Ironic that Luke prospers while Williams got the axe.

FWIW, they've just opened a great new GA terminal at Williams Gateway and
businesses continue to move into all the former AF facilities. The future
seems bright for "Willie" as a public airport.

Wonder why Luke and Williams' fortunes swung in opposite directions...?

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

"Big John" wrote in message
news

Jay

Seems like there was a subdivision problem or Luke was encroaching on
something? Been so long ago.

It would seem everyting old is new again as development near Luke is
something that is often in the news these days.

When Korea started and after, they had to cut a path through the
airway going west from Phoenix to let the birds get to the gunnery
ranges down toward Yuma (think the ranges are now named for
Goldwater?).

Correct, the ranges down along the Mexican border are the Barry Goldwater
range(s.)

Remember some finger pointing between FAA and USAF before
things were settled.

Final agreement was (as I recall) they cut a low altitude gate (below
4000 ft) across the airway and the jets had to stay low going out and
let down and come back in at low altitude to get home.

I think things have sort of flip flopped these days. They seem to prefer to
send the F16s down to the Goldwater range at 7500' and higher and want GA
down lower. I always make sure I'm talking to Luke Approach whenever I head
southwest of Phoenix and I tend to delay my climb to the usual 8500' and
stay down at 4500-6500' until I'm west or northwest of the Gila Bend VORTAC.

Willie was out in the boon docks at that time so that was probably why
it was first choice to keep open unless it was a political decision
which we didn't know about.

We're quickly running out of "boondocks" out here. Good thing businesses
and ASU jumped on Willie quickly or some developer would have snapped that
land up in a heartbeat.

I keep reading about things moving into Willie and flying activities
there now. Was sorry to see the USAF give it up (

Did some T&Gs there when I was training for my private ... 10,000' runways
look awfully big when you're in a spam can and they take forever to fly the
downwind leg!

Regards,

Jay Beckman

Did some T&Gs there when I was training for my private ... 10,000' runways
look awfully big when you're in a spam can and they take forever to fly the
downwind leg!

What makes you think you have to fly the length of the runway to do
T&G's?

What makes you think you have to fly the length of the runway to do
T&G's?

Well, except for the "three bounce currency", you are expected to fly
the pattern, whose size relates to the runway length.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Did some T&Gs there when I was training for my private ... 10,000'
runways
look awfully big when you're in a spam can and they take forever to fly
the
downwind leg!

What makes you think you have to fly the length of the runway to do
T&G's?

Because I didn't want to explain to the tower why I truncated the pattern
for 30C when 30R, 30C and 30L were all in use...howzat?

FWIW, we only did a couple and it was kind of a kick to already be at
pattern altitude with over 1/2 the runway still to go. We were back in the
air on the go before we'd even reached the end of the skidmarks in the
touchdown zone. And, I only had about 22 hours at that point so alternative
ways to fly the pattern were not something I'd given much thought to at that
point.

Jay B

We were back in the
air on the go before we'd even reached the end of the skidmarks in the
touchdown zone.

I've heard this phrase many times, but am curious as to its etymology.
Anybody know where it originated?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

That's how I let the tower know i'm moving.

The Monk

In article n_CBf.11318$jR.9890@fed1read01,
"Jay Beckman" wrote:

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Did some T&Gs there when I was training for my private ... 10,000'
runways look awfully big when you're in a spam can and they take
forever to fly the downwind leg!

What makes you think you have to fly the length of the runway to do
T&G's?

Because I didn't want to explain to the tower why I truncated the pattern
for 30C when 30R, 30C and 30L were all in use...howzat?

Ah Ha! Information not included in the original posting! :-))

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article n_CBf.11318$jR.9890@fed1read01,
"Jay Beckman" wrote:

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Did some T&Gs there when I was training for my private ... 10,000'
runways look awfully big when you're in a spam can and they take
forever to fly the downwind leg!

What makes you think you have to fly the length of the runway to do
T&G's?

Because I didn't want to explain to the tower why I truncated the pattern
for 30C when 30R, 30C and 30L were all in use...howzat?

Ah Ha! Information not included in the original posting! :-))

Noted along with appropriate level of shame ... sorry.

Jay B