"Going for the Visual"

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:27:41 GMT, "SeeAndAvoid"
wrote:

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote
"N1234, expect visual runway 25, advise when you have atis Xray
and the airport in sight"

Why not just: "N5843Q, expect visual runway 32"?
It's shorter and conveys the same information and (implied) request.

It may be shorter, but we are required to know the other two items:
that you have the current weather (atis) and that you have the airport
in sight.

Oops, I overlooked the ATIS in your initial callup and I agree that if the
pilot does not report it, that you should request it. I was always taught
to advise the controller on my initial callup that I have the ATIS.

But, it is frequent for me to be asked if I have the ATIS even when I have
just called in reporting that I DO have the ATIS!

So far as the other, the pilot should know that he has to report the
airport (or preceding a/c) in sight in order to get the visual. So when
you say "expect", that primes me to report the airport in sight.

Most airports I do approaches to dont have an ATIS, so it's a moot point.

Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Do you say you have "the ATIS" or do you say you have the
appropriate/current ATIS code. Makes a difference to the controller.

JPH

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:27:41 GMT, "SeeAndAvoid"
wrote:


"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote

"N1234, expect visual runway 25, advise when you have atis Xray
and the airport in sight"

Why not just: "N5843Q, expect visual runway 32"?
It's shorter and conveys the same information and (implied) request.

It may be shorter, but we are required to know the other two items:
that you have the current weather (atis) and that you have the airport
in sight.


Oops, I overlooked the ATIS in your initial callup and I agree that if the
pilot does not report it, that you should request it. I was always taught
to advise the controller on my initial callup that I have the ATIS.

But, it is frequent for me to be asked if I have the ATIS even when I have
just called in reporting that I DO have the ATIS!

So far as the other, the pilot should know that he has to report the
airport (or preceding a/c) in sight in order to get the visual. So when
you say "expect", that primes me to report the airport in sight.


Most airports I do approaches to dont have an ATIS, so it's a moot point.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

I've had the same experience. I usually check in with something like
"Approach, Cherokee 3351W, level five thousand, information papa."

about half the time I get asked if I have the ATIS, told to report when I have
the ATIS, or told ATIS papa is current.

J Haggerty wrote:

Do you say you have "the ATIS" or do you say you have the
appropriate/current ATIS code. Makes a difference to the controller.


But, it is frequent for me to be asked if I have the ATIS even when I have
just called in reporting that I DO have the ATIS!



--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Ray Andraka wrote:
I've had the same experience. I usually check in with something like
"Approach, Cherokee 3351W, level five thousand, information papa."

To change the topic a bit...

I've been flying lately with somebody who tends to leave off the "who
you're talking to" part of radio calls. He would make the above call as
simply, "Cherokee 3351W, level five thousand, information papa". It
drives me nuts, but the more I think about it, I wonder if it's really a
problem?

What do you controllers say? Do you like to have every pilot call you
by name at the beginning of each call, or is it just extraneous verbiage
that could be dropped with no harm done?

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

To change the topic a bit...

I've been flying lately with somebody who tends to leave off the "who
you're talking to" part of radio calls. He would make the above call as
simply, "Cherokee 3351W, level five thousand, information papa". It
drives me nuts, but the more I think about it, I wonder if it's really a
problem?

What do you controllers say? Do you like to have every pilot call you
by name at the beginning of each call, or is it just extraneous verbiage
that could be dropped with no harm done?


I find being called by name to be useful, especially when it's the wrong
name.

I get called all kinds of things, and I usually joke about it that
I'm used to it being married and all.

I guess it's not such a big deal, and I dont rub it in if I get called
the wrong facility, but it'd be nice if the crew knew where they
were I'd think.

On the flip side, what if I reply "504 (leaving out airline callsign),
roger". Technically it's incorrect, and not being a walking FAR
knowitall, I'd guess you are supposed to identify what facility you are
calling, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

Being called "approach" is about the only real insult, on those
occasions I may reply with the name of an airline that may
offend them, or call a Citation a twin cessna, etc.

So in summary, the wrong facility name when I'm not staring at
the scope may send up a warning flag that someone possibly
got the wrong freq. No facility name at all to me means they
didnt understand it from the last sector, very possible, forgot
it, also possible, or lazy, equally possible.

Chris

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Ray Andraka wrote:
I've had the same experience. I usually check in with something like
"Approach, Cherokee 3351W, level five thousand, information papa."

To change the topic a bit...

I've been flying lately with somebody who tends to leave off the "who
you're talking to" part of radio calls. He would make the above call as
simply, "Cherokee 3351W, level five thousand, information papa". It
drives me nuts, but the more I think about it, I wonder if it's really a
problem?

What do you controllers say? Do you like to have every pilot call you
by name at the beginning of each call, or is it just extraneous verbiage
that could be dropped with no harm done?

In article .net,
SeeAndAvoid wrote:
Being called "approach" is about the only real insult, on those
occasions I may reply with the name of an airline that may
offend them, or call a Citation a twin cessna, etc.

That's good to know. I was getting flight following last Sunday and the
frequency was dead quiet. I wanted to make a request, but I couldn't
remember if I was talking to approach or center so I had to look it up.
I wouldn't want to find out what they demote a single to. ;-)

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

In article CwFfc.151835$JO3.89405@attbi_s04,
(Ben Jackson) wrote:

In article .net,
SeeAndAvoid wrote:
Being called "approach" is about the only real insult, on those
occasions I may reply with the name of an airline that may
offend them, or call a Citation a twin cessna, etc.

That's good to know. I was getting flight following last Sunday and the
frequency was dead quiet. I wanted to make a request, but I couldn't
remember if I was talking to approach or center so I had to look it up.
I wouldn't want to find out what they demote a single to. ;-)

Off-frequency, they call you flib.

"SeeAndAvoid" wrote in message
link.net...
I get called all kinds of things, and I usually joke about it that
I'm used to it being married and all.

I guess it's not such a big deal, and I dont rub it in if I get called
the wrong facility, but it'd be nice if the crew knew where they
were I'd think.

I *usually* don't rub it in. Call me "Memphis Center" and I'm cool. Call
me "Indy Center" and I'm insulted. Call me "Approach" or "Radio" and I
retaliate immediately.


On the flip side, what if I reply "504 (leaving out airline callsign),
roger". Technically it's incorrect, and not being a walking FAR
knowitall, I'd guess you are supposed to identify what facility you are
calling, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

Being called "approach" is about the only real insult, on those
occasions I may reply with the name of an airline that may
offend them, or call a Citation a twin cessna, etc.

I like to use "Eastern" or "Braniff" if I'm talking to an air carrier...

Chip, ZTL

"Chip Jones" wrote:
Call me "Approach" or "Radio" and I
retaliate immediately.

There must be bad blood in Atlanta. A couple of times, Center has
handed me off to Approach and I've checked in still using "Center." It
got me a very frosty reply both times.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM