Knee Jerks

Matt Whiting wrote in
:

Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Why is it everytime someone posts an accident, there are those who
quickly make a decision or pronouncement that it was stupid, or the
pilot was a moron, or, etc, etc, and never have a clue as to the real
happenings?
Why does it take well trained professional crash investigators to do
a full investigation that may last several weeks, months, years, to
determine what happened when they could just take a quick look here
and see what the "experts" have to say?
There have been several crashes in recent days which is disturbing as
hell to me and they have been well publicized. In nearly all of these
crashes, there have been eye witnesses who breathlessly describe what
they saw, or THINK they saw and the media laps it up as if it were
gospel. Often the witness can't tell the difference in a Cessna and a
Piper or a JetRanger. Then, to make matters worse, there are those
amatuers, and a few more pros, who make immediate pronouncements as
to what happened and who is to blame.
I have been guilty of making statements in the past that turned out
to be only partly right because I didn't have all the facts. In 50
years of flying I've learned that if you aren't in the airplane or ar
not doing the flying, or are not looking right at the action with a
professional eye, why make a fool of yourself with knee jerk
statements?
Dudley, if you are still here, what do you think? You've been around
long enough and have been to enough crashes to have some ideas on the
subject.
Rocky


Those of us like you and me and others like us who have been in the
professional end of the community for any length of time usually tend
to shy heavily away from the accident speculation business, as we
know from actual experience how often the cause of an accident turns
out to be something other than the obvious.
Dudley Henriques

And, fortunately, those of you who have been in the professional end
of the community also abstain from posting in this ng every accident
that you hear about. And for that many of us are grateful!

Unfortunately, the amateurs likely will keep posting accidents and the
amateur commentators will keep speculating...

Matt

So we should not discuss this??? I'm a student pilot, but I find the
speculation, discussion of accidents very productive...

No, we should not instantly label every pilot an idiot, but how many
lives can one post and discussion here about an alleged "idiot" save??

How many pilots who read about a few guys with dry tanks who bought it,
might be a bit more likely to divert for fuel rather than "push it"....
just one example....

As far as I'm concerned, speculate away! (with reasonable respect....)
--
-- ET :-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

ET wrote:
How many pilots who read about a few guys with dry tanks who bought it,
might be a bit more likely to divert for fuel rather than "push it"....
just one example....


You want a fuel rule that will serve you well your entire flying career? "If
you have to worry about fuel, you don't have enough".



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
ET wrote:
How many pilots who read about a few guys with dry tanks who bought it,
might be a bit more likely to divert for fuel rather than "push it"....
just one example....


You want a fuel rule that will serve you well your entire flying career? "If
you have to worry about fuel, you don't have enough".


Here is another one from Selwaykid; Fuel gages always lie until they get below 1/4. At that point they are cause for concern.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

ET wrote:


So we should not discuss this??? I'm a student pilot, but I find the
speculation, discussion of accidents very productive...

I see lots of value reviewing accidents, as I do via the NTSB database
and local FAA safety seminars.

I don't see any value in speculation.

B a r r y wrote:
I see lots of value reviewing accidents, as I do
via the NTSB database and local FAA safety seminars.

I don't see any value in speculation.

None as far as the actual accident, but there's value in analyzing,
hypothesizing, thinking about how/why things happen or *could have*
happened, etc. Ya can't draw definite conclusions about the accident w/o
the NTSP reports, but anything that gets you thinking, talking and maybe
understanding more is valuable, IMO.

Barry, your comment is right on... It would behoove us all to review
the completed accident reports once a month... You will not believe
some of the stuff you read...
Go to www.ntsb.gov and go to the monthly listings... Go back a year or
two so you get final reports... It will leave you just shaking your
head...

denny

Here's a beauty... jeez

The airplane stalled and impacted the runway during an aborted landing.
The pilot reported that the accident flight was with a prospective new
flying club member. The pilot stated that the club required new members
complete a check-out flight with a current member. The prospective new
member (passenger) held a student pilot certificate and had flown solo
prior to the accident flight. The pilot held a private pilot
certificate and had accumulated 73 hours as pilot-in-command (PIC). The
pilot was not a flight instructor and was acting as PIC for the entire
flight. The pilot was seated at the right pilot station and the
passenger was seated at the left pilot station. The pilot reported that
he had "never piloted from the right position before." The pilot
reported that the passenger flew three landing approaches and each
attempt terminated in a go-around maneuver. After the third landing
attempt, the passenger asked the pilot to "demonstrate a landing." The
pilot stated that he assumed aircraft control during the downwind leg
for runway 17. He reported his final approach was flown with full flaps
and an uneventful touchdown was made on the runway. He stated that
during rollout the airplane "started to veer toward the right" and that
he "incorrectly applied the right rudder instead of left." The pilot
decided to perform an aborted landing in order to "demonstrate a better
landing." The pilot reported he applied full engine power and "lifted
the flaps briefly (but not fully)." He stated that he thought the flaps
were "up more" and that he became "flustered" as the airplane "pitched
up." He reported that the airplane "stalled" about 30-50 feet above the
ground, and that he was "able to pull the nose up so that we landed
hard on the [landing] gear."

("ET" wrote)
[snips]
So we should not discuss this??? I'm a student pilot, but I find the
speculation, discussion of accidents very productive...

As far as I'm concerned, speculate away! (with reasonable respect....)


I agree with ET.


Montblack

ET wrote:

So we should not discuss this??? I'm a student pilot, but I find the
speculation, discussion of accidents very productive...

Speculation about accidents is only worthwhile as entertainment.
Discussion about the cause of a crash after a thorough investigation has
been done is very worthwhile, but that isn't what is happening here.
What is happening here is basically ambulance chasing, often with pictures.

Matt