Knee Jerks

Barry, your comment is right on... It would behoove us all to review
the completed accident reports once a month... You will not believe
some of the stuff you read...
Go to www.ntsb.gov and go to the monthly listings... Go back a year or
two so you get final reports... It will leave you just shaking your
head...

denny

"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
by "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net Feb 14, 2006 at 10:51 AM


Hey bitch, you completely changed what I wrote. I never wrote, "Which is
why
multiple death traffic accidents seldom get a mention." I wrote...

Yeah, F-me... Someone else made the original statement. I got aggravated
and made a mistake. Sorry.

Over and out for real this time.


Bull****, you replied to my post and you changed what I wrote to help
support your position. You are a lying little **** and you got caught. Now
go away.

Why do I harp on this? Because a bad =attitude= is what kills. The
sense that "only bad pilots make errors that kill, and I am not a bad
pilot because I would =never= do that". It is this attitude that makes
it more likely that an error will gain traction and have the opportunity
to bite you.

And why do *I* harp on this? Because IMHO the attitude that *everyone*
makes bad decisions, and that this is somehow expected and okay, is
what is going to get pilots killed.

To pilot well is to strive for perfection. Can we achieve perfection?
No. But are we satisfied with not achieving it? Hell, no.

When I make mistakes (as opposed to having mechanical or health
problems), I'm a bad pilot. If that mistake kills me, I'm a REALLY bad
pilot. If it kills you, YOU'RE a really bad pilot.

To accept that ultimate, unrelenting, 100% reponsibility is what
separates pilots from passengers, IMHO.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Here's a beauty... jeez

The airplane stalled and impacted the runway during an aborted landing.
The pilot reported that the accident flight was with a prospective new
flying club member. The pilot stated that the club required new members
complete a check-out flight with a current member. The prospective new
member (passenger) held a student pilot certificate and had flown solo
prior to the accident flight. The pilot held a private pilot
certificate and had accumulated 73 hours as pilot-in-command (PIC). The
pilot was not a flight instructor and was acting as PIC for the entire
flight. The pilot was seated at the right pilot station and the
passenger was seated at the left pilot station. The pilot reported that
he had "never piloted from the right position before." The pilot
reported that the passenger flew three landing approaches and each
attempt terminated in a go-around maneuver. After the third landing
attempt, the passenger asked the pilot to "demonstrate a landing." The
pilot stated that he assumed aircraft control during the downwind leg
for runway 17. He reported his final approach was flown with full flaps
and an uneventful touchdown was made on the runway. He stated that
during rollout the airplane "started to veer toward the right" and that
he "incorrectly applied the right rudder instead of left." The pilot
decided to perform an aborted landing in order to "demonstrate a better
landing." The pilot reported he applied full engine power and "lifted
the flaps briefly (but not fully)." He stated that he thought the flaps
were "up more" and that he became "flustered" as the airplane "pitched
up." He reported that the airplane "stalled" about 30-50 feet above the
ground, and that he was "able to pull the nose up so that we landed
hard on the [landing] gear."

by "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net Feb 14, 2006 at 01:45 PM



Bull****, you replied to my post and you changed what I wrote to help
support your position. You are a lying little **** and you got caught.
Now

go away.

Tough guy: I'm not gonna leave that unanswered. You know damned well
that I was responding to Dave Stadt's post (you can look it up), and
incorrectly attributed it to you AFTER you picked up his argument, and
then you went on with your feeble-minded little attack.

"Lying little s__t??" If that was all there was to it, why would you go
ballistic?

So, sorry again for the misattribution. But, you are garden-variety dumb.

"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...

Don't you thinks it is normally a combination of factors for so called
Good Pilots? In some cases, its obvious that the crash is mainly due to a
stupid pilot (like the idiot who just crashed into the house in Ca.) In
others, something goes wrong and conditions amplify the problem (e.g. the
carburateor heater craps out when you're on your last 15 gallons, the
pattern is crowded, and there's lots of chatter on the radio).

I think we need to differentiate between a "bad pilot" and "bad piloting."
Overall good pilots sometimes are guilty of "bad piloting"--no one is
perfect.

That said, there are certain screw-ups that can be can be categorized under
"no good pilot would ever do that." These usually are also considered the
"basics" in piloting or pilot-in-command responsibility. Fuel exhaustion is
probably one of them. It's like committing "sins." Even the best people
commit some but how would you refer to someone that breaks one or more of
the Ten Commandments?

Marco



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
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And why do *I* harp on this? Because IMHO the attitude that *everyone*
makes bad decisions, and that this is somehow expected and okay, is
what is going to get pilots killed.

Everyone makes bad decisions. It is not "ok" any more than hurricaines
are "ok". But they happen. Saying that is =not= saying that minimizing
bad decisions, and minimizing the =impact= of bad decisions, is not
important. It is. But badmouthing pilots does not help minimize bad
decisions.

To pilot well is to strive for perfection.

Failure to achieve perfection does not make one a bad pilot.
Consistantly failing to come close however does. That's the difference.
Don't be misled by the statistic of one.

When I make mistakes [...], I'm a bad pilot.

So you can go from good pilot to bad pilot to good pilot in fifteen seconds?

If that mistake kills me, I'm a REALLY bad pilot.

No, you are unlucky. The badness of your piloting has to do with what
you =do=, not with how it turns out.

To accept that ultimate, unrelenting, 100% reponsibility is what
separates pilots from passengers, IMHO.

Well put, but besides the point. A single error can get you killed, but
it is the =tendency= to make errors that makes you a good or bad pilot.

Place your bets where you will (and there are good and bad places to
place your bets) but the dice still roll.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
by "Dave Stadt" Feb 14, 2006 at 03:03 PM



Which is why multiple death traffic accidents seldom get a mention. An
event that occurs over 40,000 times a year is not news.

Multiple death traffic accidents seldom get mention?? There are ALWAYS
stories about fatal car accidents in every non-national paper I read. Of
course the NY Times won't report on a fatal car accident in Detroit, but
the Detroit press certainly will.
...

Well, to test your hypothisis, I did two searches of the 7-DAY STORY SEARCH
on the Detroit Free Press web site (www.freep.com)
and came up with exactly one automobile accident that was mentioned twice:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...WS06/602140466
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...WS06/602140329

that involved 86 vehicles on the west side of the state. With no
fatalitites.


--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in message
...

"Skylune" wrote in message
For goodness sakes, a plane crash is NEWS!

And you know why it's news Lune? Because it is still fairly rare. Much as
the VP shooting a hunting partner is rare.

Strictly speaking, he shot a poaching partner - Our VP didn't have the
required license.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

ET wrote:

So we should not discuss this??? I'm a student pilot, but I find the
speculation, discussion of accidents very productive...

Speculation about accidents is only worthwhile as entertainment.
Discussion about the cause of a crash after a thorough investigation has
been done is very worthwhile, but that isn't what is happening here.
What is happening here is basically ambulance chasing, often with pictures.

Matt