Knee Jerks

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
...
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in message
...

"Skylune" wrote in message
For goodness sakes, a plane crash is NEWS!

And you know why it's news Lune? Because it is still fairly rare. Much as
the VP shooting a hunting partner is rare.

Strictly speaking, he shot a poaching partner - Our VP didn't have the
required license.

With the proper license what is the bag limit for lawyers? :-)


--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

G Farris wrote:

In article f1mIf.555301$084.131444@attbi_s22,
says...


However, if one makes errors that result in crashing, one is a REALLY "Bad
Pilot". If I were to crash as the result of making a poor decision, or
because of inadequate piloting skills, I would expect -- no, DEMAND -- that
you guys rip me to shreds posthumously for being a "Bad Pilot" -- because
that's exactly what I would have been.

Where's the debate?




That's sophmoric, Jay. You know better.

The Air France captain who ran out of runway in Toronto last year - is he a
BAD pilot? Or has he been downgraded even further now, to REALLY BAD pilot?
Or perhaps, since no one was killed he is only a "pretty bad" pilot.

Yes, a pilot who lands halfway down the runway and then runs off the end
is definitely a bad pilot. A good pilot would have aborted the
landing and come back again or diverted somewhere else.


I am not trying to ridicule you - only to underscore what I think you already
know : The quality of our action cannot be judged solely on the basis of the
result.

This is because we are all imperfect, and make mistakes and misjudgements all
the time - not just once in a while. Every time you fly, Jay, you make
mistakes. I'll go further - I'll bet almost every time you fly you make
misjudgements serious enough to have killed other pilots, on other days, in
other places . . . I'll bet the Air France guy makes fewer of these.

So he's a bad pilot less often than Jay. What's your point?

Matt

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 22:14:09 GMT, "Dave Stadt"
wrote:


With the proper license what is the bag limit for lawyers? :-)


No limit...

Just like rats... G

Taste the same too I would guess.

In article , says...


Yes, a pilot who lands halfway down the runway and then runs off the end
is definitely a bad pilot. A good pilot would have aborted the
landing and come back again or diverted somewhere else.


Hindsight permits us to judge with severity one whom we could never have hoped
even to emulate in the present tense. . .

In article , says...


So he's a bad pilot less often than Jay. What's your point?

Matt


My point is simple.
There is such a thing as a bad pilot, but to define it as "one who has been
involved in an accident" is unsatisfactory, and does not stand up to scrutiny.

GF

G Farris wrote:
In article , says...


So he's a bad pilot less often than Jay. What's your point?

Matt



My point is simple.
There is such a thing as a bad pilot, but to define it as "one who has been
involved in an accident" is unsatisfactory, and does not stand up to scrutiny.

And your definition is...?

Matt

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
That said, is there some other combinations of factors that could cause a
pilot to crash that could occur if the pilot WEREN'T a "bad pilot"?

Hail shafts, windshear. getting shot at, hi-jackers, wake turbulence,
exceedingly optimistic braking reports from the tower, unforecast mountain
rotor waves....

If you fly long enough, s**t happens. If Mr. Honeck flies long enough,
eventually s**t will happen to him. Hopefully he will come out unscathed,
but with a better understanding of the concept of 's**t happens'. You can
quote every flying manual ever written verbatim, word for word, and Mother
Nature can still get you. Mother Nature can't read.

I have hired pilots who have crashes on their records. I will agree that
most were for mechanical reasons. However, I have confidence in hiring
someone that has been in a crash. These pilots have been tested. They were
thrown a real emergency and they didn't panic. They dealt with it and lived.
They passed the ultimate test. Ain't nothing like the real thing!

D.

Don't you thinks it is normally a combination of factors for so called
Good Pilots? In some cases, its obvious that the crash is mainly due to a
stupid pilot (like the idiot who just crashed into the house in Ca.) In
others, something goes wrong and conditions amplify the problem (e.g. the
carburateor heater craps out when you're on your last 15 gallons, the
pattern is crowded, and there's lots of chatter on the radio).

I'll bet you're right. But "the carb heat crapping out" (unless you mean
the pilot didn't use it) is a mechanical failure -- which we have
specifically ruled out of this discussion.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Hail shafts, windshear. getting shot at, hi-jackers, wake turbulence,
exceedingly optimistic braking reports from the tower, unforecast mountain
rotor waves....

If you fly long enough, s**t happens. If Mr. Honeck flies long enough,
eventually s**t will happen to him. Hopefully he will come out unscathed,
but with a better understanding of the concept of 's**t happens'. You can
quote every flying manual ever written verbatim, word for word, and Mother
Nature can still get you. Mother Nature can't read.

I've experienced wind shear, severe wake turbulence, glare ice runways, and
I've flown over the mountains. And, thanks to decent training and a
dedication to flying that means I'm not only current, but proficient, I came
through somewhat rattled, but unscathed.

Getting shot at or being hijacked has (so far) not happened. I would tend
to place those occurrences under the "mechanical failure -- out of the
pilot's control" heading, quite frankly.

This all said, I'm not sure I'm following your train of thought here. By
saying "s*it happens" are you implying that I survived these challenges
through luck?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Everyone makes bad decisions. It is not "ok" any more than hurricaines
are "ok". But they happen. Saying that is =not= saying that minimizing
bad decisions, and minimizing the =impact= of bad decisions, is not
important. It is. But badmouthing pilots does not help minimize bad
decisions.

Badmouthing pilots is an entirely separate issue. That's just bad manners,
and falls under the heading of "If you can't say anything nice, don't say
anything at all."

Place your bets where you will (and there are good and bad places to place
your bets) but the dice still roll.

I'll agree with you on mechanical issues. In that realm, sh*t happens, and
can happen at any moment.

On the piloting side, however, I think we are masters of our own fate. Your
superior skill must outweigh the random acts of "bad luck" (for lack of a
better phrase) throughout every phase of flight. When your skills fail,
you fail -- and if it occurs at a critical moment of flight, you die.

Pilot error is bad piloting. If we choose to believe that the guy who made
a fatal error wasn't a bad pilot, that is charitable.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"