A380 arriving in the northeast?

What part of "for all practical purposes" went right over your head? The
European Union countries lead by France have a long history of subsidies
to Airbus.

"Chris" wrote in message
...
The manufacturer is not a subsidiary of the French Government. Its is
owned 80% by EADs and 20% by BAE systems. As far as I know they French
government don't own BAE systems and they don't own EADS.

Its a bit like saying Boeing is a subsidiary of the Department of
Defense.

"sfb" wrote in message
news:SPqIf.31295$Eq.10583@trnddc02...
For all practical purposes the manufacturer is a wholly owned
subsidiary of the French government which is certifying the plane so
it isn't a big stretch that somebody has figured out how to make the
sizing trails part of the certification program.

"G Farris" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...



"G Farris" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...


Hello there,

not sure if this is the proper group to post my question, but it
looks to
be pretty alive, and I hope that I won't be intruding.

Does anyone know if or when the Airbus A380 is going to make its
way to
JFK
in New York? It should definitely be a sight to be seen. I know
that
Singapore air will be flying in March to London.



You do mean March 2007, of course.

No this year.
Apparently the A380 is doing airport visits as part of sizing trials

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=20250



With the airplane only halfway through the certification process,
how can a
commercial company be flying between city pairs for sizing trials?

GF

In article NStIf.6038$3V4.5004@trnddc06, says...


What part of "for all practical purposes" went right over your head? The
European Union countries lead by France have a long history of subsidies
to Airbus.


The question of launch subsidies from European governments to EADS/Airbus
is indeed a sticky one, to which I agree the governments involved have not
been entirely forthcoming. But to characterize EADS/Airbus as a wholly
owned subsidiary of the French government, even "for all practical
purposes" is an unacceptable simplification.

GF

"Greg Farris" wrote in message
...

The question of launch subsidies from European governments to EADS/Airbus
is indeed a sticky one, to which I agree the governments involved have not
been entirely forthcoming. But to characterize EADS/Airbus as a wholly
owned subsidiary of the French government, even "for all practical
purposes" is an unacceptable simplification.


Actually, to characterize Airbus as a wholly owned subsidiary of the French
government, even "for all practical purposes", is simply incorrect.

Sfb,

The
European Union countries lead by France have a long history of subsidies
to Airbus.


Just like the US government subsidises Boeing. So what? You statement is
still factually wrong, for all practical purposes and beyond.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

The US government buys products from Boeing. The EU countries continue
to give launch subsidies Airbus. There is a difference despite the
unproven EU contention that the military sales to the US are somehow
subsiding Boeing's commercial aircraft development.

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Sfb,

The
European Union countries lead by France have a long history of
subsidies
to Airbus.


Just like the US government subsidises Boeing. So what? You statement
is
still factually wrong, for all practical purposes and beyond.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Sfb,

The US government buys products from Boeing. The EU countries continue
to give launch subsidies Airbus. There is a difference despite the
unproven EU contention that the military sales to the US are somehow
subsiding Boeing's commercial aircraft development.


Yeah, right. Sure. Whatever you say...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote:

Sfb,

The US government buys products from Boeing. The EU countries continue
to give launch subsidies Airbus. There is a difference despite the
unproven EU contention that the military sales to the US are somehow
subsiding Boeing's commercial aircraft development.


Yeah, right. Sure. Whatever you say...

Well as the Wall Street Journal pointed out, 8/10 Airbus Parent EADS gets
more defense business (from government) than Boeing does. BAE does a lot of
government defense business, even a healthy amount from USA. So even if
you think that selling a product to the government (airplanes, rockets,
pencil sharpeners) is a "subsidy" to the company, even that argument is more
than cancelled out. Note that Airbus doesn't even bother to deny they are
so heavily subsidized anymore, they're only defense is "well, but but but
Boeing does it too!" Right.

Meanwhile Airbus enjoys massive government subsidies such as risk free
launch loans for products, direct financial subsidies, reduced interest
loans, and massive infrastructure construction. $4 Billion launch aid for
A380 alone. Airbus will likely sucessfully shake down governments for at
least $1 billion of launch aid for the A350 if it hasn't already. The A380
required enormous infrastructure building, such as bridges, canals, roads
etc. just so that parts could be moved around Europe from one factory to
another until they reach the final assembly in Toulouse, France.

Oh and a healthy share of Airbus/EADS's ownership is by government as well.

What do you mean by a healthy share?
"John R" wrote in message ...
Thomas Borchert wrote:

Sfb,

The US government buys products from Boeing. The EU countries continue
to give launch subsidies Airbus. There is a difference despite the
unproven EU contention that the military sales to the US are somehow
subsiding Boeing's commercial aircraft development.


Yeah, right. Sure. Whatever you say...

Well as the Wall Street Journal pointed out, 8/10 Airbus Parent EADS gets
more defense business (from government) than Boeing does. BAE does a lot
of
government defense business, even a healthy amount from USA. So even if
you think that selling a product to the government (airplanes, rockets,
pencil sharpeners) is a "subsidy" to the company, even that argument is
more
than cancelled out. Note that Airbus doesn't even bother to deny they are
so heavily subsidized anymore, they're only defense is "well, but but but
Boeing does it too!" Right.

Meanwhile Airbus enjoys massive government subsidies such as risk free
launch loans for products, direct financial subsidies, reduced interest
loans, and massive infrastructure construction. $4 Billion launch aid for
A380 alone. Airbus will likely sucessfully shake down governments for at
least $1 billion of launch aid for the A350 if it hasn't already. The
A380
required enormous infrastructure building, such as bridges, canals, roads
etc. just so that parts could be moved around Europe from one factory to
another until they reach the final assembly in Toulouse, France.

Oh and a healthy share of Airbus/EADS's ownership is by government as
well.

Chris wrote:

What do you mean by a healthy share?

On the EADS side about 0.06% of stock is held directly by government of
France. 30.17% is held by SOGEADE of which government of France owns half.
5.51% is owned by SEPI, which is a holding company of the government of Spain.


"John R" wrote in message ...
Thomas Borchert wrote:

Sfb,

The US government buys products from Boeing. The EU countries continue
to give launch subsidies Airbus. There is a difference despite the
unproven EU contention that the military sales to the US are somehow
subsiding Boeing's commercial aircraft development.


Yeah, right. Sure. Whatever you say...

Well as the Wall Street Journal pointed out, 8/10 Airbus Parent EADS gets
more defense business (from government) than Boeing does. BAE does a lot
of
government defense business, even a healthy amount from USA. So even if
you think that selling a product to the government (airplanes, rockets,
pencil sharpeners) is a "subsidy" to the company, even that argument is
more
than cancelled out. Note that Airbus doesn't even bother to deny they are
so heavily subsidized anymore, they're only defense is "well, but but but
Boeing does it too!" Right.

Meanwhile Airbus enjoys massive government subsidies such as risk free
launch loans for products, direct financial subsidies, reduced interest
loans, and massive infrastructure construction. $4 Billion launch aid for
A380 alone. Airbus will likely sucessfully shake down governments for at
least $1 billion of launch aid for the A350 if it hasn't already. The
A380
required enormous infrastructure building, such as bridges, canals, roads
etc. just so that parts could be moved around Europe from one factory to
another until they reach the final assembly in Toulouse, France.

Oh and a healthy share of Airbus/EADS's ownership is by government as
well.

In article ,
Thomas Borchert wrote:

The
European Union countries lead by France have a long history of subsidies
to Airbus.

Just like the US government subsidises Boeing.

"just like"? no. Your claim that the US government subsidies Boeing
is factually wrong.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate