OT - Plasma TV question

Jay Honeck wrote:

I would go with a projector, also, but would use a DLP (digital light
processor) driven projector.

You want at least 2000 contrast, and 2500 lumens, I would think.


Um, okay. What's a "digital light processor"? And who makes these
projectors?

It is a MEMS device consisting of an array of millions of really small
mirrors that steer light onto or not onto each pixel on the scree. TI
makes the DLP chip, but lots of folks use their chips to make TVs and
projectors.


Any idea on cost? I hadn't even considered a projector, as they
always seem too dim.

You'll pay $5000 for a decent one and yes they are relatively dim as
compared to the flat panel TVs, either plasma or LCD.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Um, okay. What's a "digital light processor"? And who makes these
projectors?

It is a MEMS device [...]

Gotta love it when someone explains a TLA with another TLA. Very helpful.

[...]
You'll pay $5000 for a decent one and yes they are relatively dim as
compared to the flat panel TVs, either plasma or LCD.

$5000 should get a very nice and relatively bright DLP projector. Depending
on one's definition of "decent", the price point for that standard starts a
bit lower.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Um, okay. What's a "digital light processor"? And who makes these
projectors?

It is a MEMS device [...]

Gotta love it when someone explains a TLA with another TLA. Very helpful.

[...]
You'll pay $5000 for a decent one and yes they are relatively dim as
compared to the flat panel TVs, either plasma or LCD.

$5000 should get a very nice and relatively bright DLP projector.
Depending on one's definition of "decent", the price point for that
standard starts a bit lower.

There's a couple guys selling used Sony VPL-PX31 projectors on eBay. They
produce about 3000 ANSI lumens. They go for around 1000.00 - 1400.00. It's
a fabulous deal. I have about a dozen of them and they perform flawlessly.
They originally cost about 7K. Couple things to watch for:

The lamp life is about 1500 hours on the high brightness setting.
Replacement lamps are about 400.00 for aftermarket units. Take that into
account when bidding.

The projectors on eBay often have a long throw zoom lens. (That was
originally a 3K option.) The zoom lens model is ZM-101. The zoom angle is
3.5X to 5X. That means the projector would have to be 35 to 50 feet away
from the screen to produce a 10' wide image. The standard lens is 1.8X to
2.5X. That's the one you probably want so be sure it has the correct lens
when bidding.

If your looking for plasmas, try www.plasmanext.com. The guy's name is
Darren. I've bout at least a dozen 50" units from him. The world of plasma
resellers is almost completely scam-infested but these guys have been very
good.

You don't need a screen. The best projection surface for a room with enough
ambient light to read and make notes (most common business meeting scenario)
is a wall painted a light shade of gray. That will increase the contrast
remarkably.

These projectors are native 1024 x 768 resolution. They have a built in
scan converter and will accept any current type of signal. They will
convert an HDTV to work within their native resolution. Purists will be
unhappy with this but I doubt any of your guests will care. And, brightness
will trump resolution in any case. Also note that a projected image is much
larger than any plasma and much better suited to business presentations.
With a 7.5' a 10' viewing area, these will be killer bright. We use them
with screen sizes up to 10.5' x 14' and they work just fine with typical
dining ambient light levels.

Be sure to use good quality video cables to connect these. A typical
computer VGA cable is only good for about 10' before the signal quality
degrades. Stay away from expensive consumer cables and just get some good
industrial grade ones. Let me know if you need a source for them. You may
also want a ceiling mount bracket. Original equipment ones are expensive
(200.00). I buy them on eBay for around 50.00 or less. Again, let me know
if you need a source for one.

moo

Be sure to use good quality video cables to connect these. A typical
computer VGA cable is only good for about 10' before the signal quality
degrades. Stay away from expensive consumer cables and just get some good
industrial grade ones. Let me know if you need a source for them. You
may also want a ceiling mount bracket. Original equipment ones are
expensive (200.00). I buy them on eBay for around 50.00 or less. Again,
let me know if you need a source for one.

moo

Dang, dude, you've purchased two DOZEN big screen TVs/projectors?

That's...amazing! Thanks for you advice.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:abiMf.824209$xm3.471164@attbi_s21...
Be sure to use good quality video cables to connect these. A typical
computer VGA cable is only good for about 10' before the signal quality
degrades. Stay away from expensive consumer cables and just get some
good industrial grade ones. Let me know if you need a source for them.
You may also want a ceiling mount bracket. Original equipment ones are
expensive (200.00). I buy them on eBay for around 50.00 or less. Again,
let me know if you need a source for one.

moo

Dang, dude, you've purchased two DOZEN big screen TVs/projectors?

Of those models. Another dozen much brighter ones. And I still have most
of them. That technology (circa 2001) was the point where big screen
projectors had shrunk to toaster size and weight and brightness of than 3K
lumens was acheived with a single long life lamp. With these cheap used
ones appearing, I haven't bought any new ones in years. And 60" plasmas
will be under 5K in a year or so. But I'd recommend the projector for your
application. You'll be very pleased with the results.

The guy at www.plasmanext.com is Dalen, not Darren, as I previously said.

m

Dang, dude, you've purchased two DOZEN big screen TVs/projectors?

Of those models. Another dozen much brighter ones. And I still have most
of them.

Okay, Moo, I give up. What are you DOING with so many giganto-humongous
TVs???
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Happy Dog wrote:

The guy at www.plasmanext.com is Dalen, not Darren, as I previously said.

Holy Mackerel! Did you see that Pioneer 51" on his home page towards the
bottom? US $41 million for it!

--
Peter

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Um, okay. What's a "digital light processor"? And who makes these
projectors?

It is a MEMS device [...]


Gotta love it when someone explains a TLA with another TLA. Very helpful.

Given that it is so easy to Google either DLP or MEMS, it shouldn't
matter. And I used a FLA, not a TLA.



[...]
You'll pay $5000 for a decent one and yes they are relatively dim as
compared to the flat panel TVs, either plasma or LCD.


$5000 should get a very nice and relatively bright DLP projector. Depending
on one's definition of "decent", the price point for that standard starts a
bit lower.

We use probably 50 where I work in our conference rooms and, trust me,
the cheap ones just don't cut it unless you are in a cave to view them.

Jay's windowless room is close to a cave so he may be OK. Most of our
conference rooms have lots of windows, but even with blinds the cheap
projectors weren't very viewable. The ones we have now are quite nice,
but I believe that are all in the $5000 range, maybe a little less or
maybe a little more.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Given that it is so easy to Google either DLP or MEMS, it shouldn't
matter.

So why bother answering Jay's "what's a 'digital light processor'" question
at all? Google would have given him WAY more information on that than any
of us have.

[...]
We use probably 50 where I work in our conference rooms and, trust me, the
cheap ones just don't cut it unless you are in a cave to view them.

You haven't earned my trust.

Furthermore, I have seen DLP projectors NOT "in a cave", which cost only
around $3000, and which do the job just fine. Your blanket statement is
patently false. Frankly, I don't really care to argue about the price
point, but if you insist on continuing the "you can't spend less than $5000
and get a decent projector", I don't feel I have a choice. That statement
is simply wrong.

If you want to define "decent", and you manage to come up with a definition
that supports your statement, by all means do so. But as long as you
continue to use an ambiguous term like "decent", and yet insist that a
"decent" projector can't be had for less than $5000 (or even within some
small percentage of that price), you are making incorrect and misleading
statements.

So, do you have any idea of what it is you actually mean by "decent"? That
is, some quantifiable number that describes one or more specific performance
parameters of a DLP projector? If so, then post that (or those) parameters,
and we'll see whether or not there are any projectors less than $5000 that
meet that (or those) criteria.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Given that it is so easy to Google either DLP or MEMS, it shouldn't
matter.


So why bother answering Jay's "what's a 'digital light processor'" question
at all? Google would have given him WAY more information on that than any
of us have.

To heighten his curiousity and give him even more incentive to look up
the acronyms. So why bother commenting on my reponse and using an
acronym in your useless comment?


[...]
We use probably 50 where I work in our conference rooms and, trust me, the
cheap ones just don't cut it unless you are in a cave to view them.


You haven't earned my trust.

And for that I'm grateful. I only care if people I respect trust me.


Furthermore, I have seen DLP projectors NOT "in a cave", which cost only
around $3000, and which do the job just fine. Your blanket statement is
patently false. Frankly, I don't really care to argue about the price
point, but if you insist on continuing the "you can't spend less than $5000
and get a decent projector", I don't feel I have a choice. That statement
is simply wrong.

I'm sure Jay is smart enough to compare a few options for himself. If
he's happy with a cheap projector, that is fine with me. I'm just
encouraging him to look at a range of options before jumping at a cheap
solution that he'll be disappointed in later. My impression, though
I've yet to meet him personally, is that he likes to do things right
with his Inn and buying a cheap projector and shining it on a painted
wall simply isn't a quality solution no matter how much you claim it to be.


If you want to define "decent", and you manage to come up with a definition
that supports your statement, by all means do so. But as long as you
continue to use an ambiguous term like "decent", and yet insist that a
"decent" projector can't be had for less than $5000 (or even within some
small percentage of that price), you are making incorrect and misleading
statements.

I'm sorry my standards are much higher than yours.


So, do you have any idea of what it is you actually mean by "decent"? That
is, some quantifiable number that describes one or more specific performance
parameters of a DLP projector? If so, then post that (or those) parameters,
and we'll see whether or not there are any projectors less than $5000 that
meet that (or those) criteria.

Unfortunately, there is no set of specifications that completely
characterize how the human eye perceives an image. Camera companies and
others have tried for decades to develop them, but they still fall
short. Certainly brightness and contrast ratio are important, but keep
in mind that most of these specs are provided by the manufacturer and
there is huge variance among them. I'd only trust numbers that were
generated by a competent lab not affiliated with a given manufacturer.

The best way to know what you like is to look at as many options as you
have the patience for and compare them in situations as close as
possible to how you plan to use the device. For me "decent" is
something I'd be willing to buy for myself, and of the projectors I've
seen, I've seen few less than $5K that I'd buy for myself. I will be
buying one in another 3-4 months so I've been looking at them a fair bit
of late.

Matt