Oh those CERTIFIED plane engines !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In article ,
"Morgans" wrote:

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote

IIRC, George meant to use a water pump such as used on Merlins or
Allisons. he found the automotive pumps to be lacking.

I was unaware that a water pump for a Merlin or an Allison would fit on an
American V-8! g

Really, though, I don't understand what he would be referring to. Is it
something like what is commonly used on racing (NASCAR) engines? What
companies make something compatible, in that design?

I had always thought that special design was needed to get the accessories
running at a slower than stock RPM, either by using a smaller than normal
drive pulley, or larger than normal accessory pulley. I would think that
better bearings would be good things for a water pump.

I, also, am not sure what George was referring to. Military engines have
standard accessory mountings, so, I am assuming that coolant pumps would
simply bolt on to the accessory cases. You would have to add a similar
provision to an auto engine.

Yes, bearings were the weak point in the auto pumps.

The FAA agrees that the duster fleet needs modernized power and is very
interested in the results. No dusters - no food - and an epidemic of RATS!


No dusters, no chemicals in our food, and an epidemic of fresh organic
food with actual nutrition still in it.

Yes, I live in Kookyfornia. Save it.

In article ,
Smitty Two wrote:


The FAA agrees that the duster fleet needs modernized power and is very
interested in the results. No dusters - no food - and an epidemic of RATS!


No dusters, no chemicals in our food, and an epidemic of fresh organic
food with actual nutrition still in it.

Yes, I live in Kookyfornia. Save it.

Know how you can tell if the food you eat is organic? Just look for
"occupants", or, if you have already bitten into it, look for *half8 an
"occupant."

Peter Dohm wrote:
True ... but ...
Engines in cars rarely break. Possibly as rarely as _real_ airplane
engines. However, I have seen a broker crank in a 40 HP Volkswagen, which
my brother and I bought. We rebuilt another engine and installed it with no
further problems. I also used to know a truck mechanic who saw the
occasional broken crank; usually, or perhaps always, after seeing a failed
torsional harmonic dampened--and trying without success to convince the
owner to replace it.

I leave it to the reader to make the connection; as I have beaten that dead
horse far too much, and not only on this NG.

And the failed cranks in these cases resulted in the car being pulled
off to the side of the road.

I've had a thrown rod in a VW, a broken distributor in a Corvair and a
jumped timing chain in a Ford. In all cases the result was getting towed.

Maybe aircraft engines are better built. In my 900+ hours I haven't had
any problems in the air, but I have flown planes that have had failures
in their history. Makes my wonder how long it'll be before my hand is
dealt.

Oh, this looks like fun!

Morgans wrote:
"Cal Vanize" wrote


I've had a thrown rod in a VW,


What can you say about that one. VW (if it was a beetle) engines were over
stressed, even in a car, IMHO, and I would not trust one further than I
could throw it. I owned one, too.

cast cranks break.
even in cars.

a broken distributor in a Corvair

I don't know what to say about that one. Would more complete inspection (as
a airplane engine would get) have caught it? I can't comment further,
without knowing more about the type of failure.

I busted a distributor drive in an old '65 ford van.

the "cause" was a rusty gas tank that kept clogging the fuel filter.
made the poor beast chug so hard at times that it finally broke the drive.



jumped timing chain in a Ford.


busted a timing belt in my little bronze Les Nesman K-car.
was running real smooth, then stopped.
about 88,000 miles

How many K miles? Timing chains are a maintainance item. They (and
sprockets) wear out, and need to be replaced. Almost always, they fail at
well over 100 K miles.


In all cases the result was getting towed.


"San Antonio Center, this is experimental triple nickel,
20 miles west at 5000 feet.
Um, we seem to have a little situation here.
Looks like we broke a timing belt.
Can you contact AOPA and have them send out a tow plane?
QUICKLY!?!?"



I wonder how many hours that comes up to, in driving hours, and more
importantly, how many hours toral, the failed units had on them. My guuess
is that the total would make your 900 flying hours look like a tiny
fraction.


100,000 miles at 50 miles per hour average should be right near 2000 hours.

100 hours at the same average 50 mile per hour is a paltry 5000 miles.

Can you imagine tearing into a running automobile engine that often.
Just to see if it was ok?

Morgans wrote:

"Cal Vanize" wrote


I've had a thrown rod in a VW,


What can you say about that one. VW (if it was a beetle) engines were over
stressed, even in a car, IMHO, and I would not trust one further than I
could throw it. I owned one, too.

In our family history, we blew out jugs, head gaskets, two thrown rods.
Not a great record.



a broken distributor in a Corvair

I don't know what to say about that one. Would more complete inspection (as
a airplane engine would get) have caught it? I can't comment further,
without knowing more about the type of failure.

Actually a broken distributor shaft. Car had a few miles on it, but
hardly high mileage.



jumped timing chain in a Ford.


How many K miles? Timing chains are a maintainance item. They (and
sprockets) wear out, and need to be replaced. Almost always, they fail at
well over 100 K miles.


Fairly low miles. Around 15k, IIRC. Just outside of warranty in its day.



In all cases the result was getting towed.


I wonder how many hours that comes up to, in driving hours, and more
importantly, how many hours toral, the failed units had on them. My guuess
is that the total would make your 900 flying hours look like a tiny
fraction.

At avg. of 50 mph (easy highway miles) that would be 45,000 miles in
cars. At that mileage, the Ford had its timing chain jump and both of
hte VW engines that threw rods failed within that mileage.

Corvair had more miles, in the 70k range, but it had other problems that
would have disqualified is as reliable transportation.

"Cal Vanize" wrote

I've had a thrown rod in a VW,

What can you say about that one. VW (if it was a beetle) engines were over
stressed, even in a car, IMHO, and I would not trust one further than I
could throw it. I owned one, too.

a broken distributor in a Corvair

I don't know what to say about that one. Would more complete inspection (as
a airplane engine would get) have caught it? I can't comment further,
without knowing more about the type of failure.

jumped timing chain in a Ford.

How many K miles? Timing chains are a maintainance item. They (and
sprockets) wear out, and need to be replaced. Almost always, they fail at
well over 100 K miles.

In all cases the result was getting towed.

I wonder how many hours that comes up to, in driving hours, and more
importantly, how many hours toral, the failed units had on them. My guuess
is that the total would make your 900 flying hours look like a tiny
fraction.
--
Jim in NC

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 05:53:36 GMT, Richard Lamb
wrote:

Oh, this looks like fun!



I busted a distributor drive in an old '65 ford van.

V8? - Most common problem there was the oil pump, which was driven by
the same drive as the distributor. I've seen a few of those twist off
- but usually when starting, not on the road. Generally on vehicles
that didn't know what an oil change was.

the "cause" was a rusty gas tank that kept clogging the fuel filter.
made the poor beast chug so hard at times that it finally broke the drive.

So it was a maintenance issue.


busted a timing belt in my little bronze Les Nesman K-car.
was running real smooth, then stopped.
about 88,000 miles

And the factory recommends, for good reason, that the belt be changed
at 90,000km, which is 55,000 Miles. So it is a maintenance issue.



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On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 23:56:37 -0600, Cal Vanize
wrote:



Morgans wrote:

"Cal Vanize" wrote


I've had a thrown rod in a VW,


What can you say about that one. VW (if it was a beetle) engines were over
stressed, even in a car, IMHO, and I would not trust one further than I
could throw it. I owned one, too.

In our family history, we blew out jugs, head gaskets, two thrown rods.
Not a great record.

My '49(998cc?) engine never gave any problems other than carb ice and
vapour lock (could have both the same day at 4500 ft , 90F and 90%
humidity)

1600 Combi and Variant lost the jugs and heads (head studs pulled out
of the block) on several occaisions



a broken distributor in a Corvair

I don't know what to say about that one. Would more complete inspection (as
a airplane engine would get) have caught it? I can't comment further,
without knowing more about the type of failure.

Actually a broken distributor shaft. Car had a few miles on it, but
hardly high mileage.



jumped timing chain in a Ford.


How many K miles? Timing chains are a maintainance item. They (and
sprockets) wear out, and need to be replaced. Almost always, they fail at
well over 100 K miles.


Fairly low miles. Around 15k, IIRC. Just outside of warranty in its day.



In all cases the result was getting towed.


I wonder how many hours that comes up to, in driving hours, and more
importantly, how many hours toral, the failed units had on them. My guuess
is that the total would make your 900 flying hours look like a tiny
fraction.

At avg. of 50 mph (easy highway miles) that would be 45,000 miles in
cars. At that mileage, the Ford had its timing chain jump and both of
hte VW engines that threw rods failed within that mileage.

Corvair had more miles, in the 70k range, but it had other problems that
would have disqualified is as reliable transportation.



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On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:47:21 -0600, Cal Vanize
wrote:



Peter Dohm wrote:
True ... but ...
Engines in cars rarely break. Possibly as rarely as _real_ airplane
engines. However, I have seen a broker crank in a 40 HP Volkswagen, which
my brother and I bought. We rebuilt another engine and installed it with no
further problems. I also used to know a truck mechanic who saw the
occasional broken crank; usually, or perhaps always, after seeing a failed
torsional harmonic dampened--and trying without success to convince the
owner to replace it.

I leave it to the reader to make the connection; as I have beaten that dead
horse far too much, and not only on this NG.

And the failed cranks in these cases resulted in the car being pulled
off to the side of the road.

I've had a thrown rod in a VW, a broken distributor in a Corvair and a
jumped timing chain in a Ford. In all cases the result was getting towed.

Failed distributor of what replaces it in a 93 Transam after roughly
20,000 miles. (Over $800) and it had to be towed.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Maybe aircraft engines are better built. In my 900+ hours I haven't had
any problems in the air, but I have flown planes that have had failures
in their history. Makes my wonder how long it'll be before my hand is
dealt.