GPS Question

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 03:21:06 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Peter Clark" wrote in message
.. .

OK. I believe the answer is the GS/localizer and VOR respectively.


Why did you choose VOR for the VOR/DME RWY 15 at MTN? Do you see VOR
serving the same role there as the localizer does for the ILS/DME RWY 2 at
DRO?

I chose it because it's the point where the rest of the required
information (distance to maintain from and radial crossing) is derived
from.

For the arc portion of the DRO approach, no - the DRO VOR serves the
same purpose for that approach until hitting the lead radial.

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...

I chose it because it's the point where the rest of the required
information (distance to maintain from and radial crossing) is derived
from.


The I-DRO localizer provides distance information?



For the arc portion of the DRO approach, no - the DRO VOR serves the
same purpose for that approach until hitting the lead radial.


What navaid provides lateral guidance on the final approach course at DRO?
What navaid provides lateral guidance on the final approach course at MTN?


Here's a link to an approach at Antigo, Wisconsin:

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...s/06215N16.PDF

Can GPS substitute for ADF on this approach? Please explain your answer.

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:54:03 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Peter Clark" wrote in message
.. .

I chose it because it's the point where the rest of the required
information (distance to maintain from and radial crossing) is derived
from.


The I-DRO localizer provides distance information?

Who knows, the arc is based off the VOR/DME transmitter. I believe I
corrected that oversight in a later response.

For the arc portion of the DRO approach, no - the DRO VOR serves the
same purpose for that approach until hitting the lead radial.


What navaid provides lateral guidance on the final approach course at DRO?
What navaid provides lateral guidance on the final approach course at MTN?

None. Distance is from the VOR/DME transmitters, or in the case of an
ILS/DME the I-whatever. For these approaches I'm substituting the
GPS distance readout instead of having an actual DME box and using the
VOR head to drive the CDI for cross radials. Flying a DME arc is
specifically listed as a permitted operation in the AIM
1-1-19(f)(1)(a)(2).

Here's a link to an approach at Antigo, Wisconsin:

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...s/06215N16.PDF

Can GPS substitute for ADF on this approach? Please explain your answer.

No, because there's no GPS overlay.

Who knows, the arc is based off the VOR/DME transmitter.

VOR and DME are two separate transmitters, on two separate frequencies,
with two separate methods. The channels are coordinated, that's about
all they have in common (except location at a co-located VOR/DME)

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...

Who knows, the arc is based off the VOR/DME transmitter. I believe I
corrected that oversight in a later response.


Who knows? Everybody that understands the applicable publications.



None. Distance is from the VOR/DME transmitters, or in the case of an
ILS/DME the I-whatever. For these approaches I'm substituting the
GPS distance readout instead of having an actual DME box and using the
VOR head to drive the CDI for cross radials. Flying a DME arc is
specifically listed as a permitted operation in the AIM
1-1-19(f)(1)(a)(2).


Right. No navaid provides lateral guidance on the final approach course for
either of these IAPs. Why would lateral guidance be needed on an instrument
approach anyway?

It appears you were fibbin' when you said you weren't trying to be obtuse
here.



No, because there's no GPS overlay.


Right answer, wrong reason.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Here's a link to an approach at Antigo, Wisconsin:

WOW! My home town! :-) However, I learned to fly at Cheyenne, WY.

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...s/06215N16.PDF

Can GPS substitute for ADF on this approach? Please explain your answer.

No. The ADF is the Primary navaid. To use the GPS for this
approach, the approach would be relabeled, using "GPS" in the
header.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, please review with me my home airport... KFNL
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...s/05677I33.PDF

Note in the lower left of the central graphic box, where it says
"ADF REQUIRED". In this case the GPS may be substituted for the
NDB, as this is an ILS approach and the NDB is not the primary
navaid.

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jeratfrii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 240 Young Eagles!

wrote in message ...

WOW! My home town! :-) However, I learned to fly at Cheyenne, WY.


When did you live in Antigo?



No. The ADF is the Primary navaid. To use the GPS for this
approach, the approach would be relabeled, using "GPS" in the
header.


Correct.



Now, please review with me my home airport... KFNL
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...s/05677I33.PDF

Note in the lower left of the central graphic box, where it says
"ADF REQUIRED". In this case the GPS may be substituted for the
NDB, as this is an ILS approach and the NDB is not the primary
navaid.


Correct, ADF is needed for the missed approach procedure.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
wrote in message ...

Now, please review with me my home airport... KFNL
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...s/05677I33.PDF

Note in the lower left of the central graphic box, where it says
"ADF REQUIRED". In this case the GPS may be substituted for the
NDB, as this is an ILS approach and the NDB is not the primary
navaid.


Correct, ADF is needed for the missed approach procedure.

I (the person who started this thread) am confused again. Do I need an
ADF when I shoot this procedure, or not?

Some plates say "ADF Required." I think I've seen some plates say "DME
Required." Can I legally begin the approach in a Cirrus that has no
ADF or DME?

"rps" wrote in message
ups.com...
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
wrote in message
...

Now, please review with me my home airport... KFNL
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...s/05677I33.PDF

Note in the lower left of the central graphic box, where it says
"ADF REQUIRED". In this case the GPS may be substituted for the
NDB, as this is an ILS approach and the NDB is not the primary
navaid.


Correct, ADF is needed for the missed approach procedure.

I (the person who started this thread) am confused again. Do I need an
ADF when I shoot this procedure, or not?

Some plates say "ADF Required." I think I've seen some plates say "DME
Required." Can I legally begin the approach in a Cirrus that has no
ADF or DME?


Yes, since the primary approach guidance is from the ILS and the NDB is
there to identify the marker and the missed approach holding fix. This is
an example of when the GPS can be used in lieu of the ADF at your
destination airport. But if GPS goes south during the approach and you have
to go missed...

The rule about when you can't use GPS in lieu of DME/ADF applies if you're
required to file an alternate. There must be another approach available at
the alternate that doesn't have a DME/ADF requirement. As I posted earlier,
this is to ensure you have a usable approach in the event of GPS failure.
For this ILS at FNL, you'd probably need radar vectors to guide you to the
marker if you had no GPS and no ADF. But what if you lost comm? Most of
the belt & suspenders safety rules for IFR ops are to give you an 'out' in
the case of lost comm or nav capability. Finding a non-DME or non-ADF
approach could take a bit of searching! But, as a previous poster noted, if
you have to go missed for a non-GPS reason, you can (in my opinion) still
use your GPS in lieu of DME/ADF where you need it. The bottom line is, use
everything you've got to protect your skin, your tin, and your ticket - in
that order.

But if GPS goes south during the approach and you have
to go missed...

.... I think the idea is that if you are going missed, you are at a
higher altitude and there is more latitude. If you are on the approach
using the primary navaid for guidance, you are as low as you can go, and
there's much less room for error.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.