Would this plane have flown?

The damage appears to be confined to the trailing edge of
the aileron, so it would be out of trim. But the
reflections and paint otherwise look straight and
unwrinkled. A ferry permit could be issued for such a
condition and an inspection for range of motion, security,
etc signed of by an A mechanic and of course it would be
finally up to the pilot whether to fly. I would not want to
fly it IFR, most ferry permits only allow Day/VFR.

Since the wing looks good at the tip/aileron area, I'd also
want to see the wing attach points since the strength of the
wing and its lever arm would have a lot of force applied to
the spar points. I'd look for wrinkles, cracked paint along
the fuselage. I'd still look that over, just changing the
aileron doesn't complete the inspection.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| "Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
|
oups.com...
| http://www.thegaryhouse.com/aircraftdamage/
|
| I was down in a remote area of Mexico this last weekend
and a truck
| backed into my aileron. I was lucky that the driver had
a sat phone and
| I was able to call an A&P to come down to Mexico and
swap it for me.
| However, all the local pilots, and the A&P who came down
seemed to
| think it would have flown ok as was. From a simply
academic point of
| view I"m curious what you guys think.
|
| -Robert
|
| Just looking at the photo, I would have been concerned
about the outer
| attach point for possible post impact misalignment that
might under load
| cause an issue, but that being said, I've flown prop
fighters on ferry
| permits that looked worse off than this.
| The bottom line is that you had a known damaged airframe
and a take off
| decision to make that involved a go/no go without looking
inside the aileron
| for hidden damage.
| If the guys that won't be in the airplane are right, and
you don't have a
| problem, you're gold. If on the other hand, if the guys
not going in the
| airplane are wrong, and you do have a
problem.........well......they're not
| in the airplane......and you might be dead!
| My decision would have been to have it looked at before I
flew it out.
| Dudley Henriques
|
|

A ferry permit could be issued for such a
condition and an inspection for range of motion, security,
etc signed of by an A mechanic and of course it would be
finally up to the pilot whether to fly. I would not want to
fly it IFR, most ferry permits only allow Day/VFR.

One of the reasons I didn't want to try for the permit is because I
just don't know what the procedure would have been, but I expect it
would have taken months. The initial inspection would have had to have
been done by an A&E and then approved by Mexico City. However, then
comes the custom's duties, etc. Finally, I'd need an A&P to look at it
before I entered the U.S. (or right after entering, I don't recall).
So I kept very, very quiet about it. I didn't tell the Mexicans about
it and didn't mention anything to U.S. customs.I believe that
technically both the A&P and I could have both been arrested since I
believe it is totally illegal for an A&P to do any major repair without
an A&E present.

I guess I got lucky that the guy who hit me had a sat phone on him.
Otherwise I would have been faced with the decision. Either fly it out
of there as-is or abandon the plane there.

I guess I got lucky that the guy who hit me had a sat phone on him.
Otherwise I would have been faced with the decision. Either fly it out
of there as-is or abandon the plane there.

Well, at that point the insurance company owns the plane. Do you want
to do them a favor that badly?

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Well, at that point the insurance company owns the plane. Do you want
to do them a favor that badly?

That's easy to say now. However, that really means that you may never
see your bird again and rather than a 2 hour flight to the states you
are looking at spending the next 2 days barfing in the back of a
pickup.

-Robert

Well, at that point the insurance company owns the plane. Do you want
to do them a favor that badly?

That's easy to say sitting here but not so easy when you're there. The
concequences of that are 1) You may never see your bird again and 2)
Rather than a 2 hour flight back to the states you are looking at 2
days of Mexican dirt roads blowing chunks the entire way.

-Robert

I'm not sure about the Mexican rules or even Customs duties
on bringing the repaired airplane back. But a visit to the
FSDO by the A&P before he came to Mexico, with the proper
details would have resulted in a quick issuance of a Special
Airworthiness Certificate [ferry permit] and the A&P would
make such repairs as needed before signing the logbook and
the certificate to make the flight legal. You would also
want to contact your insurance company because most aircraft
insurance policies are restricted to "when a valid standard
airworthiness certificate" is on the airplane. A ferry
permit is not a standard airworthiness certificate and your
insurance is not in force. That would be a violation of
Mexican law.
Also, not informing your insurance company makes it
difficult or impossible to recover damages from the truck
driver.

Since the airplane was US registered and the work was done
by a US A&P, the FAA would have issued the permit within a
hour. But Mexican labor law might have also required that
you hire a Mexican mechanic to supervise.

I hope you flew it back solo and sent the family by airline
or bus.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
| A ferry permit could be issued for such a
| condition and an inspection for range of motion,
security,
| etc signed of by an A mechanic and of course it would be
| finally up to the pilot whether to fly. I would not
want to
| fly it IFR, most ferry permits only allow Day/VFR.
|
| One of the reasons I didn't want to try for the permit is
because I
| just don't know what the procedure would have been, but I
expect it
| would have taken months. The initial inspection would have
had to have
| been done by an A&E and then approved by Mexico City.
However, then
| comes the custom's duties, etc. Finally, I'd need an A&P
to look at it
| before I entered the U.S. (or right after entering, I
don't recall).
| So I kept very, very quiet about it. I didn't tell the
Mexicans about
| it and didn't mention anything to U.S. customs.I believe
that
| technically both the A&P and I could have both been
arrested since I
| believe it is totally illegal for an A&P to do any major
repair without
| an A&E present.
|
| I guess I got lucky that the guy who hit me had a sat
phone on him.
| Otherwise I would have been faced with the decision.
Either fly it out
| of there as-is or abandon the plane there.
|

You would also want to contact your insurance company because most aircraft
insurance policies are restricted to "when a valid standard
airworthiness certificate" is on the airplane.

The insurance co's attitude was "spend what you have to, do what ever
you have to" to get the plane out of Mexico. If a pilot leaves a plane
in Mexico it can take months to get it back. The Mexican gov't has a
real hard time with pilots exiting that are not the pilot who flew the
plane in. Also, they know there is money in fixing airplanes and they
want to make real sure they get a piece of that. Everything in Mexico
requires lots of paperwork and every paper needs lots and lots of
stamps

-Robert

That may all be true, but the FAA does have the ferry permit
to allow damaged airplanes to be flown, solo or required
crew only. Your insurance company has a contract to insure
your airplane if you operate it in accordance with the FAA
regulations.



"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
| You would also want to contact your insurance company
because most aircraft
| insurance policies are restricted to "when a valid
standard
| airworthiness certificate" is on the airplane.
|
| The insurance co's attitude was "spend what you have to,
do what ever
| you have to" to get the plane out of Mexico. If a pilot
leaves a plane
| in Mexico it can take months to get it back. The Mexican
gov't has a
| real hard time with pilots exiting that are not the pilot
who flew the
| plane in. Also, they know there is money in fixing
airplanes and they
| want to make real sure they get a piece of that.
Everything in Mexico
| requires lots of paperwork and every paper needs lots and
lots of
| stamps
|
| -Robert
|

Your insurance company has a contract to insure
your airplane if you operate it in accordance with the FAA regulations.

The insurance co was pretty clear that they did not want me to wait
around for the paperwork process and wanted me to get it back to the
U.S.. The longer you wait around, the more likely the Mexicans will
notice the plane is damaged.

-Robert