Wingy is all grown up!

Was to read "in lieu of salary." That'll teach me to post before the
morning cup o coffee.

You know, back in the last housing bubble - late 80's - I read about an
elegant little 2nd trust deed scam.

An extended family got together and pooled their money. They formed a
corporation that loaned one of the members enough to pay off his
morgage - basically, they refinanced it so the shell company owned the
first.

Then they found a sucker to put up a short term second on the house.
They stopped paying the first, but kept paying the second. The first
forclosed. Meanwhile, the money from the second had gone into the
pool, and was being used to pay off the first on the next house. They
went through half a dozen second lenders before word got out.

I had a golfing buddy that for years tried to interest me in joining
him and his dad in a mortage backed securities business. I looked into
it and just didn't like what I saw and didn't feel the risk was worth
leaving what I already had. You know, the old saying about the Bird in
the Hand deal. Over several years, we sort of lost touch with each
other. My last contact with them involved some consulting and
installation of a computer network which I had a very hard time getting
payment for. That set off red lights and I ended my contact with them.

I hadn't seen or heard of them for over 12 years. I knew the building
that they once occupied and had their business name on it had changed
names but I just assumed they and move onward and upward. Just before
we moved to Dallas, my wife happened to run into this friends wife and
had lunch with her. Boy oh boy did we get caught up on the past.
Seems that both my former friend and his dad had been caught doing
illegal trades and money laundering. They had both gone to jail and
the guys dad was still in jail doing 15-20 years. My friend had gotten
a 5-10 sentence and had served his time. WHAT A SHOCK (not really).

I do hope that Jordan is not into the same type of shell game they were
playing and that I won't read about him doing something similar in the
future. These deals dependent on an ever increasing influx of money to
keep them afloat. They can't last forever and someone always ends up
the last to put in when there is nothing to pull out.

They can last forever, if the price of real estate keeps going up
forever. And it will - on average. The problem is that real estate
prices don't follow the smooth increase of a municipal bond or a T
bill. There are jumps, and plateaus, and from time to time, downturns.


Remember the last big housing downturn? An awful lot of people walked
away from properties that were upside down. The first trust deed
holder recovered something - more or less, depending on specifics. But
second trust deed holders lost it all.

I'm with you, Bob, I hope he's on the up-and-up. It's one of the
nicest websites I've come across. But this is a kid with a history of
(ahem) exageration, who hung out with Captain Zoom in his formative
years. And he wants people to trust him with their money. I look at
his pitch and I think "When something looks too good to be true - it
probably is."

In article .com, Richard
Riley says...

I'm with you, Bob, I hope he's on the up-and-up. It's one of the
nicest websites I've come across. But this is a kid with a history of
(ahem) exageration, who hung out with Captain Zoom in his formative
years. And he wants people to trust him with their money. I look at
his pitch and I think "When something looks too good to be true - it
probably is."

The most telling thing for me is his history with zoom. I can almost understand
his being a zoomie during his first year or so on RAH.But for someone that is
being depicted as a young genius in finance to be so easily duped by zoom for so
long speaks volumes.When he would turn away from common sense and excuse zoom
for all he has done to people for the attention zoom gave him,tells me he lacks
the same compassion for people that zoom does.I wouldn't trust my money with
people like that.

The article I read was interesting but I'll wait for as Paul Harvey would say
"the rest of the story".

I'm off to Sun n Fun this AM see ya down there.The CGS booth is once again the
official RAH-14 gathering spot.A true zoom free zone.Remember if someone spots
zoom on the SnF grounds and lets me or security know where he is and zoom gets
caught.You will get a $100 finders fee:-)

See ya

Chuck S


--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

Hey Chuck......

I won't be there, but tell Vern and the rest of the gang I said WOOF!

Sure gonna miss that M/L tho....... btw..... that did really cure my
sore leg in LEX!

Have fun......

Frank "Woof" Beagle
Challenger Dealer EAA UFIE
Kankakee IL
http://www.geocities.com/frankbeagle
http://frankbeagle.blogspot.com
708-269-8057

I'm off to Sun n Fun this AM see ya down there.The CGS booth is once again the
official RAH-14 gathering spot.A true zoom free zone.Remember if someone spots
zoom on the SnF grounds and lets me or security know where he is and zoom gets
caught.You will get a $100 finders fee:-)

See ya

Chuck S


--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

ML doesn't actually cure any physical ailments. It just makes it so
you don't care about them anymore!

On 1 Apr 2006 07:05:09 -0800, "Richard Riley" wrote:

Muzzleloader doesn't actually cure any physical ailments.

I disagree. In Bob Urban's case, it cured "life". :-)

Ron Wanttaja

Keep us informed on how many of Zooms former advertisers get served
with lawsuits this year. It should make for some interesting reading.

For those that think housing prices are going to continue to
increase...

Northern Virginia Available Homes Inventory

March 1, 2005(left number) April 2, 2006 (right number)
Alexandria City 121 846
Arlington County 159 807
Fairfax City 26 90
Fairfax County 800 5,764
Falls Church City 6 46
Loudoun County 708 3,369
Manassas City 34 269
Manassas Park 18 125
Prince Will. Cty 673 3,708

Source: Virginiamls.com



A couple of years ago I bought a house. Conforming loan, 30% down, 15
year fixed. I got it at 4.625%. Or, i could have gone through the
company Wingie was working for and paid 6.5%. Needless to say, I
didn't use Wingie as my mortgage broker.

Here's what I don't understand. Wingie is promising his investors 12%.
Lenders are climbing over each other to re-fi stuff in the mid 6%
range. If I want to borrow money against real estate, under the
conditions Wingie has on his website (70% loan to value, no rural, no
construction loans, no rehab, etc) why would I go to him and pay 12%+?

You would go to him because you're working as a dealer, valet,
dancer/stripper, etc and 75% of your income is in tips which you don't
100% report to the IRS. So, your income tax return "says" you only make
$25,000 a year and you want to buy a $250,000 house. No bank will loan
you that much money given your reported income.

But, Wingy will at around 14% to 15%.... you pay him for a couple years
and now have a record of timely payments to show a banks financial
officer. You've shown you can make the payments and the bank is now
happy to loan you the money you need to pay off Wingy's loan and get a
new loan at normal rates.

Wingy is laughing all the way to the bank since the worst thing you can
do to him is pay off his loan. If you default on the loan, he gets the
house for 70% of it's value. He'll have to pay roughly 10% of the value
in lawyer fees but it's still a win/win situation for Wingy.

Wingy is making his money from people that are cheating the government
so it's probably not so bad that he's "cheating" them with his loan
rates. They end up with a house and he ends up with the money. Las
Vegas was made for Wingy... lots of people trying to get rich off of
other poor souls/suckers... Definately a target rich environment for
anyone willing to take advantage of the situation.


John

Richard Riley wrote:


Here's what I don't understand. Wingie is promising his investors 12%.
Lenders are climbing over each other to re-fi stuff in the mid 6%
range. If I want to borrow money against real estate, under the
conditions Wingie has on his website (70% loan to value, no rural, no
construction loans, no rehab, etc) why would I go to him and pay 12%+?