Non existent VOR

john smith wrote:
I flew from Ohio to Florida early this week. The third leg was from
Valdosta (KVLD) GA to West Palm Beach (KPBI) FL.
My originally filed route was amended twice before I got 25 miles. JAX
Center gave me PHK (Pahokee VOR) as my final fix before KPBI.
As I was nearing the east shore of Lake Okeechobee, the approach
controller asked me if I was going direct to some intersection.
I responded that I was flying direct PHK.
He then told me PHK had disappeared in one of the hurricanes last year.
I told him that I was going to ask if any had reported that the VOR was
out of service, as I had not been receiving any signal on the nav
receiver.
There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me an amended
clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the new charts
(IFR and Sectionals).
Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid did not exist.
This one gets a NASA Form 277.

It was probably way past computer Notam status. Most likely in the
printed version.
Did you check the updates in your IAPs?
Michelle

It was probably way past computer Notam status. Most likely in the
printed version.
Did you check the updates in your IAPs?

Forgot that source. Thanks Michelle, I'll look.

Michelle wrote:
john smith wrote:

There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me an amended
clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the new charts
(IFR and Sectionals).
Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid did not exist.
This one gets a NASA Form 277.


It was probably way past computer Notam status. Most likely in the
printed version.
Did you check the updates in your IAPs?

It's even there in a DUAT briefing I just pulled down:

******** NOTAMs ********
!MIA 11/102 PHK HIWAS OTS
!MIA 11/015 PHK VORTAC OTS

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1144074189.245618@sj-nntpcache-5...

It's even there in a DUAT briefing I just pulled down:

******** NOTAMs ********
!MIA 11/102 PHK HIWAS OTS
!MIA 11/015 PHK VORTAC OTS


Okay, he didn't get a stellar briefing, but that doesn't alter the fact that
he was assigned the route over PHK by JAX ARTCC. They should have known
better.

that doesn't alter the fact that
he was assigned the route over PHK by JAX ARTCC.

Did he have GPS? Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the
aircraft can still navigate it?

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:


Did he have GPS? Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the
aircraft can still navigate it?

No. Give the FAA time, they're new to this GPS stuff. They just
recently stopped notaming an ILS OTS when the DME would be taken out of
service and that DME was listed on the plate as required. They just
figured out that most people aren't using DME.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

Did he have GPS? Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the
aircraft can still navigate it?


No. Give the FAA time, they're new to this GPS stuff. They just recently
stopped notaming an ILS OTS when the DME would be taken out of service and
that DME was listed on the plate as required. They just figured out that
most people aren't using DME.


FAA Order 7110.65R

Air Traffic Control

Chapter 4. IFR

Section 4. Route Assignment

4-4-4. ALTERNATIVE ROUTES

When any part of an airway or route is unusable because of NAVAID status,
clear aircraft other than /E, /F, /G, or /R, via one of the following
alternative routes:

a. A route depicted on current U.S. Government charts/publications. Use the
word "substitute" immediately preceding the alternative route in issuing the
clearance.

b. A route defined by specifying NAVAID radials, courses, or azimuths.

c. A route defined as direct to or between NAVAIDs.

d. Vectors.

NOTE-
Inform area navigation aircraft that will proceed to the NAVAID location of
the NAVAID outage.

"Jose" wrote in message
. ..

Did he have GPS?


I don't think so. He didn't mention GPS and he said he had not been
receiving any signal from PHK on his nav receiver.



Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the aircraft
can still navigate it?


Yes, if the aircraft is /E, /F, /G, or /R.

Did he have GPS?

I don't think so. He didn't mention GPS and he said he had not been
receiving any signal from PHK on his nav receiver.

I had a Garmin GPS 195 portable and a King KLN 89A in the panel with an
out of date database. I did not file any remarks indicating that I had
area nav on board.

Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the aircraft
can still navigate it?

Yes, if the aircraft is /E, /F, /G, or /R.

I filed /A

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1144074189.245618@sj-nntpcache-5...
Michelle wrote:
john smith wrote:

There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me an amended
clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the new charts
(IFR and Sectionals).
Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid did not exist.
This one gets a NASA Form 277.


It was probably way past computer Notam status. Most likely in the
printed version.
Did you check the updates in your IAPs?

It's even there in a DUAT briefing I just pulled down:

******** NOTAMs ********
!MIA 11/102 PHK HIWAS OTS
!MIA 11/015 PHK VORTAC OTS


I'm late in joining this thread, but on an Angel Flight a year or so ago, I
was happily moving along my IFR flight plan following airways when IND
approach told my the Hoosier VOR was OTS. I was never told that during my
briefing. 3 seconds after an "uhh... stand by" on my part, IND offered
vector direct to my next VOR. Duh. D - next waypoint & we're off. Actually
shaved a few minutes off, anyway.
It did kind of surprise me, though.