Airspace Violations OLC

Stewart Kissel wrote:
they are called around the world. On the other hand,
we pay taxes to our government(s) to enforce rules.
So if you feel like enforcing them yourself...I suppose
no one is stopping you. I certainly think the OLC
has better things to do.

It's up to ALL OF US to keep an eye on flight claims and attempt to
contact the person making a questionable claim. Ask them to add a
comment to the flight explaining the discrepancy, or withdraw the
flight. If they refuse, and it's an obvious bust, then submit a
"complaint" to the OLC.

Especially in the USA, we have tremendous freedom of flight. Let's not
allow some thoughtless claims to provide data for the FAA or anyone
else wishing to take away our freedom.

-Tom

5Z wrote:
It's up to ALL OF US to keep an eye on flight claims and attempt to
contact the person making a questionable claim. Ask them to add a
comment to the flight explaining the discrepancy, or withdraw the
flight. If they refuse, and it's an obvious bust, then submit a
"complaint" to the OLC.

The very concept of getting accusatory emails from individuals who
likely know nothing of the circumstances of my flights, would certainly
kill any interest I might have in participating in the OLC...

Marc Ramsey wrote:
5Z wrote:
It's up to ALL OF US to keep an eye on flight claims and attempt to
contact the person making a questionable claim. Ask them to add a
comment to the flight explaining the discrepancy, or withdraw the
flight. If they refuse, and it's an obvious bust, then submit a
"complaint" to the OLC.

The very concept of getting accusatory emails from individuals who
likely know nothing of the circumstances of my flights, would certainly
kill any interest I might have in participating in the OLC...


How about calling in law enforcement to carry out random ramp testing
on loggers? Once folks start breaking one or two little rules, who
knows where it could lead? We need to stamp out this antisocial
widespread glider log cheating immediately!

Some good examples - all of those recent long ridge flights in the NE
USA are made WAY too close to the ground. I think all those logs
should be pulled for close scrutiny for violations!

Mike

Marc Ramsey wrote:
5Z wrote:
It's up to ALL OF US to keep an eye on flight claims and attempt to
contact the person making a questionable claim. Ask them to add a
comment to the flight explaining the discrepancy, or withdraw the
flight. If they refuse, and it's an obvious bust, then submit a
"complaint" to the OLC.

The very concept of getting accusatory emails from individuals who
likely know nothing of the circumstances of my flights, would certainly
kill any interest I might have in participating in the OLC...

I can understand that, but is there a way a person could contact you
that would be agreeable to you? Or as an alternative to people
contacting a pilot with a potential airspace violation, would you prefer
any pilot posting a flight with an airspace intrusion explain why the
intrusion was allowed (in the comment section on the claim form)?

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Marc Ramsey wrote:
The very concept of getting accusatory emails from individuals who
likely know nothing of the circumstances of my flights, would
certainly kill any interest I might have in participating in the OLC...

I can understand that, but is there a way a person could contact you
that would be agreeable to you? Or as an alternative to people
contacting a pilot with a potential airspace violation, would you prefer
any pilot posting a flight with an airspace intrusion explain why the
intrusion was allowed (in the comment section on the claim form)?

I might not have an issue with the OLC implementing some mechanism for
automatically detecting and requesting clarification on any apparent
airspace violations in a flight. It may or may not be worth the hassle,
but it would at least be clear what was going on. If I instead had to
justify my every move to arbitrary observers, it definitely isn't worth
it. Every year I make flights under (and once inside, with permission)
Class B airspace, over and inside of (with permission) Class C airspace,
over and inside of (inactive) Restricted airspace, in Class A wave
windows, etc. A local pilot may or may not understand what is going on,
someone outside of the area almost certainly won't.

For some people, it would just be a license to harass other pilots.
This is one area where personal responsibility should be the primary
enforcement mechanism, just as it is for those who aren't participating
in the OLC.

Marc

P.S. I'm not currently participating in the OLC, as I don't think it is
worth the hassle...

Ok, so every time a pilot exceeds 18,000 feet, he just adds a note
"cleared by ATC" and everything's fine!

I don't know why there's an assumption that rule breaking is at all
widespread and that a flight outside normal airspace hasn't been done
with permission. Most of us do obey the rules, you know.

Mike

Mike the Strike wrote:
Ok, so every time a pilot exceeds 18,000 feet, he just adds a note
"cleared by ATC" and everything's fine!

Yes.

I don't know why there's an assumption that rule breaking is at all
widespread and that a flight outside normal airspace hasn't been done
with permission. Most of us do obey the rules, you know.

Because these flights are posted online for all to see, we the pilots
and our national organizations are indirectly responsible for what is
posted. The SSA, FAI, etc., don't want to be in the business of
policing their membership due to both the effort required and the
liability taken on.

What I, and many other responsible pilots ask, is that we all work to
keep our sport safe and out of the eyes of anyone with an agenda
against us.

When a pilot makes a questionable operation that you witness, do you
take him aside and quietly "counsel" him? It may be that what he did
was perfectly safe in his eyes, and after you hear the explaination all
is well. It may also be that he didn't realize the error and is
thankful for the concern. The OLC environment is the same, IMO.

-Tom

"5Z" wrote in message
ups.com...

Mike the Strike wrote:
Ok, so every time a pilot exceeds 18,000 feet, he just adds a note
"cleared by ATC" and everything's fine!

Yes.

I don't know why there's an assumption that rule breaking is at all
widespread and that a flight outside normal airspace hasn't been done
with permission. Most of us do obey the rules, you know.

Because these flights are posted online for all to see, we the pilots
and our national organizations are indirectly responsible for what is
posted. The SSA, FAI, etc., don't want to be in the business of
policing their membership due to both the effort required and the
liability taken on.

What I, and many other responsible pilots ask, is that we all work to
keep our sport safe and out of the eyes of anyone with an agenda
against us.

When a pilot makes a questionable operation that you witness, do you
take him aside and quietly "counsel" him? It may be that what he did
was perfectly safe in his eyes, and after you hear the explaination all
is well. It may also be that he didn't realize the error and is
thankful for the concern. The OLC environment is the same, IMO.

-Tom


I have to agree with 5Z. If it looks like a reg was busted, don't post it.
The internet is not only public, it is permanent. A file can re-surface
years later when the consequences may be...unfortunate for the pilot and the
sport in gerneral. This is something that deserves respect.

Bill Daniels

5Z wrote:

Because these flights are posted online for all to see, we the pilots
and our national organizations are indirectly responsible for what is
posted. The SSA, FAI, etc., don't want to be in the business of
policing their membership due to both the effort required and the
liability taken on.

"...don't want to be in the business of policing the membership", so
let's all police the membership.

Great! I can hardly wait to become just like all the totalitarians we've
been fighting for the last 70 years.

Welcome to 2084.


Jack

When someone passes you on the highway doing 15 over the speed limit,
do you call 911 and sic the coppers on him? If you see your neighbor
in a sleazy bar about to get lucky, do you call his wife?

The saying "Mind your own business" comes to mind!

Kirk
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