Airspace Violations OLC

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Marc Ramsey wrote:
The very concept of getting accusatory emails from individuals who
likely know nothing of the circumstances of my flights, would
certainly kill any interest I might have in participating in the OLC...

I can understand that, but is there a way a person could contact you
that would be agreeable to you? Or as an alternative to people
contacting a pilot with a potential airspace violation, would you prefer
any pilot posting a flight with an airspace intrusion explain why the
intrusion was allowed (in the comment section on the claim form)?

I might not have an issue with the OLC implementing some mechanism for
automatically detecting and requesting clarification on any apparent
airspace violations in a flight. It may or may not be worth the hassle,
but it would at least be clear what was going on. If I instead had to
justify my every move to arbitrary observers, it definitely isn't worth
it. Every year I make flights under (and once inside, with permission)
Class B airspace, over and inside of (with permission) Class C airspace,
over and inside of (inactive) Restricted airspace, in Class A wave
windows, etc. A local pilot may or may not understand what is going on,
someone outside of the area almost certainly won't.

For some people, it would just be a license to harass other pilots.
This is one area where personal responsibility should be the primary
enforcement mechanism, just as it is for those who aren't participating
in the OLC.

Marc

P.S. I'm not currently participating in the OLC, as I don't think it is
worth the hassle...

Ok, so every time a pilot exceeds 18,000 feet, he just adds a note
"cleared by ATC" and everything's fine!

I don't know why there's an assumption that rule breaking is at all
widespread and that a flight outside normal airspace hasn't been done
with permission. Most of us do obey the rules, you know.

Mike

Mike the Strike wrote:
Ok, so every time a pilot exceeds 18,000 feet, he just adds a note
"cleared by ATC" and everything's fine!

Yes.

I don't know why there's an assumption that rule breaking is at all
widespread and that a flight outside normal airspace hasn't been done
with permission. Most of us do obey the rules, you know.

Because these flights are posted online for all to see, we the pilots
and our national organizations are indirectly responsible for what is
posted. The SSA, FAI, etc., don't want to be in the business of
policing their membership due to both the effort required and the
liability taken on.

What I, and many other responsible pilots ask, is that we all work to
keep our sport safe and out of the eyes of anyone with an agenda
against us.

When a pilot makes a questionable operation that you witness, do you
take him aside and quietly "counsel" him? It may be that what he did
was perfectly safe in his eyes, and after you hear the explaination all
is well. It may also be that he didn't realize the error and is
thankful for the concern. The OLC environment is the same, IMO.

-Tom

"5Z" wrote in message
ups.com...

Mike the Strike wrote:
Ok, so every time a pilot exceeds 18,000 feet, he just adds a note
"cleared by ATC" and everything's fine!

Yes.

I don't know why there's an assumption that rule breaking is at all
widespread and that a flight outside normal airspace hasn't been done
with permission. Most of us do obey the rules, you know.

Because these flights are posted online for all to see, we the pilots
and our national organizations are indirectly responsible for what is
posted. The SSA, FAI, etc., don't want to be in the business of
policing their membership due to both the effort required and the
liability taken on.

What I, and many other responsible pilots ask, is that we all work to
keep our sport safe and out of the eyes of anyone with an agenda
against us.

When a pilot makes a questionable operation that you witness, do you
take him aside and quietly "counsel" him? It may be that what he did
was perfectly safe in his eyes, and after you hear the explaination all
is well. It may also be that he didn't realize the error and is
thankful for the concern. The OLC environment is the same, IMO.

-Tom


I have to agree with 5Z. If it looks like a reg was busted, don't post it.
The internet is not only public, it is permanent. A file can re-surface
years later when the consequences may be...unfortunate for the pilot and the
sport in gerneral. This is something that deserves respect.

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels wrote:

I have to agree with 5Z. If it looks like a reg was busted, don't post it.

Whenever I've seen a flight through some class-whatever-airspace, I have
just assumed that the pilot had a simple clearance.

But maybe I'm naive. Always assume the worst, every pilot is permanently
trying to bust as many rules as he can, and the government has nothing
more urging in their agenda than to **** of the glider pilots. Just
because you're paranoid doesn't mean you're not shadowed.

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Bill Daniels wrote:

I have to agree with 5Z. If it looks like a reg was busted, don't post
it.

Whenever I've seen a flight through some class-whatever-airspace, I have
just assumed that the pilot had a simple clearance.

But maybe I'm naive. Always assume the worst, every pilot is permanently
trying to bust as many rules as he can, and the government has nothing
more urging in their agenda than to **** of the glider pilots. Just
because you're paranoid doesn't mean you're not shadowed.

Stefan

That's not exactly it. The vast majority of pilots do try to fly within the
rules but can nonetheless break one inadvertantly. The accidental violation
may small and not apparent until reviewing the flight trace. Unfortunately,
the authorities may choose not to 'look the other way' since a secure IGC
file is pretty 'air-tight' evidence of the violation. The careful and
prudent pilot will choose not to post a flight showing an airspace
violation.

That said, traces which on first review appear to show a violation of a rule
may in fact be legal if, for example, the pilot obtained a clearance.
That's what the OLC comment field is for - it helps avoid controversy.

Bill Daniels

5Z wrote:

Because these flights are posted online for all to see, we the pilots
and our national organizations are indirectly responsible for what is
posted. The SSA, FAI, etc., don't want to be in the business of
policing their membership due to both the effort required and the
liability taken on.

"...don't want to be in the business of policing the membership", so
let's all police the membership.

Great! I can hardly wait to become just like all the totalitarians we've
been fighting for the last 70 years.

Welcome to 2084.


Jack