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Is it a habit we prefer mechnical instruments?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 19th 06, 07:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Is it a habit we prefer mechnical instruments?

Smitty Two wrote:
Let's be careful with our choice of words, lest we cast murkiness
instead of illumination.

[snipped]
Many pilots love the simplicity, elegance, and nostalgia of "steam
gauges" -- the old, individual, three dimensional, panel-mounted
instruments. And, many also have no objection to updating some of that
stuff with LCD displays, particularly if the newer technology can do the
same job with substantial savings of cost, time, weight, and complexity,
while offering increased reliability.

In *that* endeavor, you have my blessing. But I'd restrain the idea of
pushing a left turn button on the panel that sends a radio signal to
some little motors in the wings and tail to make the control surfaces
move, to your nighttime "dreaming."


Yes proper nomenclature is really important. But in fact, I do mean
both the instruments and the controls. They should be brought as deep
into the digital domain as possible. Again, as an electrical/software
engineer (but not a pilot), I am biased. When I look into the cockpit
of an aircraift, I see opportunity for greater efficiency almost
everywhere. Certain questions that must be asked about conventional
instruments and controls would simply never get asked in the digital
domain.

Semiconductors fatigue. Their parts don't vibrate. They are not as
susceptible to variations in moisture and other environmental factors.
If I were to go dig out an old 1984 IBM PC from my schools computer lab
closet and flip the switch, it might not start, but that would be due
to rust on the mechanics. I could take the board out, put it in a
non-rusty case, power it, and it will boot. And it will compute up to
4.77 million instructions per second thereafter, and continue to do so
for 1000 years provided I did not drop or fry it.

This is why I believe that heavy metal will eventually give way to a
lightweight composites and plastics. The value proposition is just to
great to ignore.

It would be much more exciting if someone were to just do much of it at
once rather than spread the transition out over 50 years.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

  #2  
Old April 19th 06, 08:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Is it a habit we prefer mechnical instruments?

------------much snipping----------
Semiconductors fatigue. Their parts don't vibrate. They are not as
susceptible to variations in moisture and other environmental factors.
If I were to go dig out an old 1984 IBM PC from my schools computer lab
closet and flip the switch, it might not start, but that would be due
to rust on the mechanics. I could take the board out, put it in a
non-rusty case, power it, and it will boot. And it will compute up to
4.77 million instructions per second thereafter, and continue to do so
for 1000 years provided I did not drop or fry it.

They are certainly more repeatable over a modest period of time. However,
it is my understanding that the molecules in the critical substrates do
migrate over time, and also due to temperature and electrical events. So,
presuming that "normal" operation was not too close to any critical speed,
voltage, or temperature; the 21 years since 1984, or a few more years into
the future, should not be troublesome. However, 1000 years really is taking
"poetic lecense" over the top.


  #3  
Old April 20th 06, 03:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Is it a habit we prefer mechnical instruments?

In article .com,
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote:

Again, as an electrical/software
engineer (but not a pilot), I am biased.

-Le Chaud Lapin-


And therein lies the crux of the issue. What is possible is one thing.
What is desirable and marketable is another. Try this experiment: Go
find someone riding a motorcycle, and offer him a suitcase full of bus
tickets in exchange for his bike. Or someone waiting in line for a
roller coaster ride, and offer to walk him directly over to the coaster
exit area to save him the bother of doing all that riding just to get
there.

And then, please, go take a few flying lessons. Airliners already have
all the stuff you're talking about, and GA neither needs it, nor, more
importantly, wants it. If we get to the point where people really are
commuting to work by the millions in little skycars, then perhaps your
ideas will have some merit.
  #4  
Old April 23rd 06, 04:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Is it a habit we prefer mechnical instruments?

Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

Semiconductors fatigue. Their parts don't vibrate.


In a plane they will. And they will crack if not supported properly.

They are not as
susceptible to variations in moisture and other environmental factors.


Drop the temps to -40F and they won't work at all. Dowse them in water
and couple of times and the leads will corrode.

If I were to go dig out an old 1984 IBM PC from my schools computer lab
closet and flip the switch, it might not start, but that would be due
to rust on the mechanics. I could take the board out, put it in a
non-rusty case, power it, and it will boot. And it will compute up to
4.77 million instructions per second thereafter, and continue to do so
for 1000 years provided I did not drop or fry it.


Or it may just beep at you.

Problem is, most light craft don't have a professionally trained team of
engineers to care for them. Hell, a lot of them are stored outside. At
least with the heavy metal you can see the environmental damage
progressing and take appropriate measures.

This is why I believe that heavy metal will eventually give way to a
lightweight composites and plastics. The value proposition is just to
great to ignore.


Just don't ignore the drawbacks.


--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."
  #5  
Old April 23rd 06, 05:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Is it a habit we prefer mechnical instruments?


"Ernest Christley" wrote

Drop the temps to -40F and they won't work at all. Dowse them in water
and couple of times and the leads will corrode.


Just don't ignore the drawbacks.


And you didn't mention static charges (coming in from all of those sensors)
wiping memory clean, or damaging components, nor did you mention radio
frequency interference, or engine noise, or the computer causing
interference problems with the communications.

The issue of displays washing out is in the most part solved with
commercially available displays being marketed for aviation use, but the 500
buck computer that has been mentioned here is not going to have a display
capable of working in the cockpit.

I hope by the time I finish an airplane, there are glass cockpit units that
will fit my budget. I would love to have one.
--
Jim in NC

P.S. How is your project going? Is it about time for you to post a
write-up on your progress? :-)

  #6  
Old April 23rd 06, 06:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Is it a habit we prefer mechnical instruments?

Morgans wrote:

I hope by the time I finish an airplane, there are glass cockpit units
that will fit my budget. I would love to have one.


Dynon was advertising the D10A for $1700 at Sun'n'Fun.

I've got the fuselage flipped upside down as I finish the belly fabric.
I was hoping to get the Polybrush and Polyspray on this weekend, but
got sidetracked putting the last pieces of fabric on control surfaces.
Once I'm done with all the PolyStuff spraying, I flip it back over an
start on the fiberglass upper skins.

--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."
  #7  
Old April 23rd 06, 09:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Is it a habit we prefer mechnical instruments?


Morgans wrote:
"Ernest Christley" wrote

Drop the temps to -40F and they won't work at all. Dowse them in water
and couple of times and the leads will corrode.


Just don't ignore the drawbacks.


And you didn't mention static charges (coming in from all of those sensors)
wiping memory clean, or damaging components, nor did you mention radio
frequency interference, or engine noise, or the computer causing
interference problems with the communications.


Sensors are no where near the memory of the computuers. I would think
that an EE designing USB-based sensor would know to design it so as not
to damage the PC. RFI is hyped. Everytime somone operaters a laptop
or PDA in an aircraft, the are generating RFI. And besides, it's
something that is easily dealt with.

The issue of displays washing out is in the most part solved with
commercially available displays being marketed for aviation use, but the 500
buck computer that has been mentioned here is not going to have a display
capable of working in the cockpit.


I've used both PDA and laptop screen in aircraft many times. But not
in the cockpit..

I hope by the time I finish an airplane, there are glass cockpit units that
will fit my budget. I would love to have one.


I'm hoping one day work on a custom aircraft project with some people.
Obviously, I'd want to work on the electronics.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

  #8  
Old April 23rd 06, 11:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Is it a habit we prefer mechnical instruments?


"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote


RFI is hyped. Everytime somone operaters a laptop
or PDA in an aircraft, the are generating RFI. And besides, it's
something that is easily dealt with.


I wish I could point right to the bit I just read recently, saying that RFI
is *more* of an issue than was previously thought.
--
Jim in NC

  #9  
Old April 24th 06, 01:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Is it a habit we prefer mechnical instruments?

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote


RFI is hyped. Everytime somone operaters a laptop
or PDA in an aircraft, the are generating RFI. And besides, it's
something that is easily dealt with.


I wish I could point right to the bit I just read recently, saying that

RFI
is *more* of an issue than was previously thought.
--
Jim in NC

I read or heard the same, and don't recall the source or precise date,
except that it had to do with use of "non transmitting" electronics (such as
laptops and PDAs) in the cabins of airliners and corporate jets.

Peter


  #10  
Old April 24th 06, 01:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Is it a habit we prefer mechnical instruments?


"Peter Dohm" wrote

I read or heard the same, and don't recall the source or precise date,
except that it had to do with use of "non transmitting" electronics (such
as
laptops and PDAs) in the cabins of airliners and corporate jets.


Right.

Was it AvWeb?
--
Jim in NC

 




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