ILS question

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:AYeAc.106416$3x.41993@attbi_s54...


Regarding radar approach - no, radar vectors do not constitute a 'radar
approach'. The term 'radar approach' refers to approaches using ASR and
PAR. It's in the AIM but don't have the reference.

It's also a fundamental part of being qualified to hold an instrument rating.



Maule Driver wrote:

wrote in message ...

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:AYeAc.106416$3x.41993@attbi_s54...


Regarding radar approach - no, radar vectors do not constitute a 'radar
approach'. The term 'radar approach' refers to approaches using ASR and
PAR. It's in the AIM but don't have the reference.

It's also a fundamental part of being qualified to hold an instrument
rating.

Yup, well, I'm certainly aware of ASR and PAR approaches, though I'd
momentarily forgotten that they're what the term 'radar approach' refers to,
in contrast with 'radar vectors to an approach'. Now that my embarrassing
lapse is remedied, I hope my qualifications are restored.

Meanwhile, I'm still not certain I understand the example in AIM 5-4-7b.
When the specified clearance is to "maintain 2000 until established on the
localizer" (after being vectored to and cleared for the ILS approach), does
the clearance actually mean not just until established on the localizer, but
also "until established on a published segment" of the approach? That
interpretation is suggested by the preceding caveats and the subsequent note
in 5-4-7b. But if that's right, the phrasing of the clearance is confusing.

--Gary

Gary Drescher wrote:

wrote in message ...

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:AYeAc.106416$3x.41993@attbi_s54...


Regarding radar approach - no, radar vectors do not constitute a 'radar
approach'. The term 'radar approach' refers to approaches using ASR and
PAR. It's in the AIM but don't have the reference.

It's also a fundamental part of being qualified to hold an instrument
rating.

Yup, well, I'm certainly aware of ASR and PAR approaches, though I'd
momentarily forgotten that they're what the term 'radar approach' refers to,
in contrast with 'radar vectors to an approach'. Now that my embarrassing
lapse is remedied, I hope my qualifications are restored.

It has been restored. ;-)



Meanwhile, I'm still not certain I understand the example in AIM 5-4-7b.
When the specified clearance is to "maintain 2000 until established on the
localizer" (after being vectored to and cleared for the ILS approach), does
the clearance actually mean not just until established on the localizer, but
also "until established on a published segment" of the approach? That
interpretation is suggested by the preceding caveats and the subsequent note
in 5-4-7b. But if that's right, the phrasing of the clearance is confusing.


You got it right. "Established" is suppose to be used by ATC only in
conjunction with a published segment. If they vector you onto an unpublished
extension of the LOC, they are then obligated to either withhold approach
clearance until you reach a published segment, or issue the approach clearance
with a crossing restriction for a fix where you reach the published segment.