Sea Harrier FA2 - a modern-day F6D Missileer?

"Paul J. Adam" wrote ...

TOliver writes
"Thomas Schoene" wrote ...
Unfortunately, pictures of real Sea Harriers with live missile loads
seem
to be rare as hen teeth.

Rumor has it that aside from the blue, inert exercise "concrete" versions,
the budget only stretched to a couple of dozen, held in a secret bunker
somewhere in Yorkshire, plugged in like recharging cell phones, awaiting
the
summons to Armageddon...

Not *quite* that bad; the UK AMRAAM buy was sufficient to arm the Tonka
F.3s as well as give the deployed carrier her Blue Book loadout, with
enough left over (assuming we don't actually shoot any in anger) to tide
the Typhoons over until Meteor deliveries start.

Which isn't to say there are surplus AIM-120s piled up in corners, just
that for once Tom's overstating it

I suspect an actual weapons load of two per a/c is about all the
acquisition
budget will stretch to,

The problem was rather one of the inevitable weight growth of ageing
aircraft, coupled to the high cost of a bigger engine, and expected
operations in weather charitably described as "too bloody hot for
comfort": in air temperatures of over forty degrees modern, a SHar with
four AMRAAMs couldn't hover at more than 'flameout in seconds' fuel
states. (Hence, in part, its premature retirement)

Thanks, Paul. I was engaged in a bit of ritual, nay liturgical,
cistern-chain pulling. I do doubt we'll ever see a harrier or any other
birds for that matter, RAF or USAF, actually "actively employed" with 4
AIM-120s aboard. A mixed loadout really makes more sense, and needing to
pull the gun pack to add 2 to the Harrier sort of narrows the a/c's
potential employment roles.

TMO

"TOliver" wrote in message
...

"Paul J. Adam" wrote ...

TOliver writes
"Thomas Schoene" wrote ...
Unfortunately, pictures of real Sea Harriers with live missile loads
seem
to be rare as hen teeth.

Rumor has it that aside from the blue, inert exercise "concrete"
versions,
the budget only stretched to a couple of dozen, held in a secret bunker
somewhere in Yorkshire, plugged in like recharging cell phones, awaiting
the
summons to Armageddon...

Not *quite* that bad; the UK AMRAAM buy was sufficient to arm the Tonka
F.3s as well as give the deployed carrier her Blue Book loadout, with
enough left over (assuming we don't actually shoot any in anger) to tide
the Typhoons over until Meteor deliveries start.

Which isn't to say there are surplus AIM-120s piled up in corners, just
that for once Tom's overstating it

I suspect an actual weapons load of two per a/c is about all the
acquisition
budget will stretch to,

The problem was rather one of the inevitable weight growth of ageing
aircraft, coupled to the high cost of a bigger engine, and expected
operations in weather charitably described as "too bloody hot for
comfort": in air temperatures of over forty degrees modern, a SHar with
four AMRAAMs couldn't hover at more than 'flameout in seconds' fuel
states. (Hence, in part, its premature retirement)

Thanks, Paul. I was engaged in a bit of ritual, nay liturgical,
cistern-chain pulling. I do doubt we'll ever see a harrier or any other
birds for that matter, RAF or USAF, actually "actively employed" with 4
AIM-120s aboard.

You'd lose that bet in a hurry. F-15's routinely carry AIM-120's and can
realistically haul even more. Even the F-16 on a pure air-to-air tasking can
carry four. A photo of the latter, with one AIM-120 having just been
launched, can be found at:

http://www.army-technology.com/proje...Slamraam_6.jpg

A close up showing the wingtip and outer pylons of a Falcon loaded with
AIM-120's, with the armorer doing his thing:

http://home.pages.at/godi/bewaffnung.../aim120f16.jpg

A mixed loadout really makes more sense, and needing to
pull the gun pack to add 2 to the Harrier sort of narrows the a/c's
potential employment roles.

But "other birds", such as the F-15, can carry four of them *plus* a couple
of AIM-9's and *still* have their gun to fall back on.

Brooks


TMO

Kevin Brooks wrote:

"TOliver" wrote in message
...

"Paul J. Adam" wrote ...

TOliver writes
"Thomas Schoene" wrote ...
Unfortunately, pictures of real Sea Harriers with live missile loads
seem
to be rare as hen teeth.

Rumor has it that aside from the blue, inert exercise "concrete"
versions,
the budget only stretched to a couple of dozen, held in a secret bunker
somewhere in Yorkshire, plugged in like recharging cell phones, awaiting
the
summons to Armageddon...

Not *quite* that bad; the UK AMRAAM buy was sufficient to arm the Tonka
F.3s as well as give the deployed carrier her Blue Book loadout, with
enough left over (assuming we don't actually shoot any in anger) to tide
the Typhoons over until Meteor deliveries start.

Which isn't to say there are surplus AIM-120s piled up in corners, just
that for once Tom's overstating it

I suspect an actual weapons load of two per a/c is about all the
acquisition
budget will stretch to,

The problem was rather one of the inevitable weight growth of ageing
aircraft, coupled to the high cost of a bigger engine, and expected
operations in weather charitably described as "too bloody hot for
comfort": in air temperatures of over forty degrees modern, a SHar with
four AMRAAMs couldn't hover at more than 'flameout in seconds' fuel
states. (Hence, in part, its premature retirement)

Thanks, Paul. I was engaged in a bit of ritual, nay liturgical,
cistern-chain pulling. I do doubt we'll ever see a harrier or any other
birds for that matter, RAF or USAF, actually "actively employed" with 4
AIM-120s aboard.

You'd lose that bet in a hurry. F-15's routinely carry AIM-120's and can
realistically haul even more. Even the F-16 on a pure air-to-air tasking can
carry four. A photo of the latter, with one AIM-120 having just been
launched, can be found at:

http://www.army-technology.com/proje...Slamraam_6.jpg

A close up showing the wingtip and outer pylons of a Falcon loaded with
AIM-120's, with the armorer doing his thing:

http://home.pages.at/godi/bewaffnung.../aim120f16.jpg

In the aftermath of 9/11, US-based F-16s were patrolling with 4 x AIM-120 and 2 x
AIM-9s (plus 3 tanks).

A mixed loadout really makes more sense, and needing to
pull the gun pack to add 2 to the Harrier sort of narrows the a/c's
potential employment roles.

But "other birds", such as the F-15, can carry four of them *plus* a couple
of AIM-9's and *still* have their gun to fall back on.

4/4, 6/2, or 8/0. The F-15E and export siblings, at least, can carry AIM-120s on
the pylon shoulder stations. I don't know if the As through Ds are so wired. I
remember an article a few years ago saying that there was a bit of a conflict
between armorers and F-15E pilots, at least at the base mentioned in the article.
They typically were carrying 2/2 on the pylon shoulders. IIRR the pilots wanted
the AIM-9s on the outsides, to improve seeker FOV for lock-on, while the armorers
wanted the AIM-120s there because there was limited space for loading/unloading
them on the inside of the pylons. I've seen photos of them both ways, as well as
operational a/c carrying four of one or the other.

Guy



Brooks


TMO

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:23:47 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

4/4, 6/2, or 8/0. The F-15E and export siblings, at least, can carry AIM-120s on
the pylon shoulder stations. I don't know if the As through Ds are so wired. I
remember an article a few years ago saying that there was a bit of a conflict
between armorers and F-15E pilots, at least at the base mentioned in the article.
They typically were carrying 2/2 on the pylon shoulders. IIRR the pilots wanted
the AIM-9s on the outsides, to improve seeker FOV for lock-on, while the armorers
wanted the AIM-120s there because there was limited space for loading/unloading
them on the inside of the pylons. I've seen photos of them both ways, as well as
operational a/c carrying four of one or the other.

Guy

All of the remaining USAF F-15A-D aicraft have MSIP, which allows
AMRAAM on 2A, 2B, 8A, 8B. I think all of the LAU-114 launchers (AIM-9
only) are gone and only LAU-128 launchers remain.

If you look he
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123019067
you will see 3xAIM-120 and 1xAIM-9.
(Plus 2xGBU-12, 2xGBU-38, 2x600 gal fuel tank, LANTIRN Nav pod &
Sniper targeting pod. And the VHF/UHF antenna for radio 1.
Interesting load out.)

--Rolf

If you look he
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123019067
you will see 3xAIM-120 and 1xAIM-9.
(Plus 2xGBU-12, 2xGBU-38, 2x600 gal fuel tank, LANTIRN Nav pod &
Sniper targeting pod. And the VHF/UHF antenna for radio 1.
Interesting load out.)

That it is.
I wouldn't have expected the asymetric AA load out; do you think there
might have been a couple items on those other stations when he left the
field?

Guy Alcala wrote:

: But "other birds", such as the F-15, can carry four of them *plus* a couple
: of AIM-9's and *still* have their gun to fall back on.
:
:4/4, 6/2, or 8/0. The F-15E and export siblings, at least, can carry AIM-120s on
:the pylon shoulder stations. I don't know if the As through Ds are so wired. I
:remember an article a few years ago saying that there was a bit of a conflict
:between armorers and F-15E pilots, at least at the base mentioned in the article.
:They typically were carrying 2/2 on the pylon shoulders. IIRR the pilots wanted
:the AIM-9s on the outsides, to improve seeker FOV for lock-on, while the armorers
:wanted the AIM-120s there because there was limited space for loading/unloading
:them on the inside of the pylons. I've seen photos of them both ways, as well as
perational a/c carrying four of one or the other.

Essentially what the Super Hornet can do - 8 AAMs in pretty much any
combination, plus the gun. That can probably go up to 10 AAMs in any
combination if they ever routinely start fitting the outermost under
wing stations and clear them for AIM-120. That leaves a belly station
for a tank, if you need it.

Ordinary Hornets carry up to 4 and 2, plus a belly tank, I think.

--
"You keep talking about slaying like it's a job. It's not.
It's who you are."
-- Kendra, the Vampire Slayer

"Fred J. McCall" wrote:

Guy Alcala wrote:

: But "other birds", such as the F-15, can carry four of them *plus* a couple
: of AIM-9's and *still* have their gun to fall back on.
:
:4/4, 6/2, or 8/0. The F-15E and export siblings, at least, can carry AIM-120s on
:the pylon shoulder stations. I don't know if the As through Ds are so wired. I
:remember an article a few years ago saying that there was a bit of a conflict
:between armorers and F-15E pilots, at least at the base mentioned in the article.
:They typically were carrying 2/2 on the pylon shoulders. IIRR the pilots wanted
:the AIM-9s on the outsides, to improve seeker FOV for lock-on, while the armorers
:wanted the AIM-120s there because there was limited space for loading/unloading
:them on the inside of the pylons. I've seen photos of them both ways, as well as
perational a/c carrying four of one or the other.

Essentially what the Super Hornet can do - 8 AAMs in pretty much any
combination, plus the gun. That can probably go up to 10 AAMs in any
combination if they ever routinely start fitting the outermost under
wing stations and clear them for AIM-120. That leaves a belly station
for a tank, if you need it.

14 AAMs max. if all pylons are fitted. Dual launchers on inboard and intermediate
pylons, singles on the O/Bs and tips (AIM-9 only in the latter case, IIRR), and single
AIM-120s in each fuselage well. Not a very realistic load, to be sure, but I know
the USN has flown F-18Cs with 12, and they've probably loaded the F-18E/F up to the
max. for giggles.

Ordinary Hornets carry up to 4 and 2, plus a belly tank, I think.

Depends. Even during Desert Shield, USMC Hornets flying BARCAP were carrying 3 x
AIM-7s and 4 x AIM-9s plus two tanks.

Guy