IFR use of handheld GPS

On Saturday, I got an IFR clearance "KROC direct GEE direct KAGC", which
as soon as I got airborne was ammened to "direct KAGC". I was /A and I'd
filed along airways, but they must have known I had a handheld on board
and it was CAVU because I couldn't have flown that in IMC with the
equipment installed on the plane.

What does CAVU have to do with it?
--
Thanks,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

In a previous article, "John Clonts" said:
On Saturday, I got an IFR clearance "KROC direct GEE direct KAGC", which
as soon as I got airborne was ammened to "direct KAGC". I was /A and I'd
filed along airways, but they must have known I had a handheld on board
and it was CAVU because I couldn't have flown that in IMC with the
equipment installed on the plane.

What does CAVU have to do with it?

If the handheld had failed, I could have navigated by map reading.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
My hate/hate relationship with XML is, predictably, on 'hate' at the moment.
-- Matt S Trout

If the handheld had failed, I could have navigated by map reading.

Since direct can only be given under radar control (IFR GPS or
otherwise) if you lost your handheld you could have just asked for
vectors. I used to note "VFR GPS on board" on my IFR flight plan. I no
longer need to, ATC seems to assume everyone can take direct now. The
/G just lets them know to offer you a GPS approach.

-Robert

In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:
If the handheld had failed, I could have navigated by map reading.

Since direct can only be given under radar control (IFR GPS or
otherwise) if you lost your handheld you could have just asked for
vectors. I used to note "VFR GPS on board" on my IFR flight plan. I no

Yeah, but in a lost comm situation, you'd either have to map read your way
to the destination or aim off to intercept your original airways course or
quickly plot a new airways course. I could do the all of the above in
CAVU, but in IMC I'd probably want to do the middle one.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"The first rule of Usenet Cabal is: you do not talk about Usenet Cabal."

Yeah, but in a lost comm situation, you'd either have to map read your way
to the destination or aim off to intercept your original airways course or
quickly plot a new airways course.

Lost comm in IMC, just use the handheld. Is your concern a double
failure (handheld and comm)?

-Robert

In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:
Yeah, but in a lost comm situation, you'd either have to map read your way
to the destination or aim off to intercept your original airways course or
quickly plot a new airways course.

Lost comm in IMC, just use the handheld. Is your concern a double
failure (handheld and comm)?

It's already been said that you can only go direct when ATC can monitor
you on radar, so how can you go direct in a lost comm situation? If
you're lost comm, how can they vector you around traffic or warn you if
you're off track?


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"He passed away during an important civic function held in his honor when the
platform upon which he was standing collapsed." "I thought he was hanged?"
"That's what I said, isn't it?"

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

It's already been said that you can only go direct when ATC can monitor
you on radar, so how can you go direct in a lost comm situation? If
you're lost comm, how can they vector you around traffic or warn you if
you're off track?


Then nobody should ever go direct or be vectored.

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

It's already been said that you can only go direct when ATC can monitor
you on radar, so how can you go direct in a lost comm situation? If
you're lost comm, how can they vector you around traffic or warn you if
you're off track?


It's no different than losing comm while on a long range vector. Nobody
claims that's illegal, few claim it's hazardous, and many insist that's what
you're really doing while navigating by handheld GPS.

Since direct can only be given under radar control (IFR GPS or
otherwise) ....

I am not sure where everyone is getting this information. Maybe it is
a 'rule' but I have often been given direct routes when out of ATC
radar and, for a while, out of ATC communications. And I don't have a
panel GPS. I use the handheld. But I always get a vector before hand,
not for legality, but in case the GPS craps out I have some idea of
what direction to fly. Yes I could look at the GPS direction, but
hearing the vector and writing it down, just enforces it into my
memory.

And I monitor VOR's to double check the path the GPS is telling me.
And I use the two VOR's to double check that they are working properly.
What the heck else do you have to do in the clouds for three hours?
Once is a while I tune in the ADF to check it. Then I monitor
intersections with the two VOR's. I may even get two radials and
triangulate my position to see how close I get to what the GPS says I
am at. And during all this I am not falling asleep.

I have had the GPS signal get lost twice during IFR flights. This
lasted for about 20 minutes. One time was not a problem with the 'box'
as I had two handhelds and the second one came up with no satellites
also. Both events were over Nebraska. So don't believe that it can
not happen. I was glad to have been on an airway both times with the
VORs set to the previous and next stations.

Greg J.

gregscheetah wrote:
Since direct can only be given under radar control (IFR GPS or
otherwise) ....


I am not sure where everyone is getting this information. Maybe it is
a 'rule' but I have often been given direct routes when out of ATC
radar and, for a while, out of ATC communications.

The "rule" is that direct routes initiated by ATC are limited to the
service volume of VOR (or rarely, NDBs) and the controller can assure
that MIAs will not be violated.

When the pilot makes the request, though, let the buyer beware.