IFR use of handheld GPS

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:nTo6g.175187$bm6.57868@fed1read04...

The "rule" is that direct routes initiated by ATC are limited to the
service volume of VOR (or rarely, NDBs) and the controller can assure that
MIAs will not be violated.

When the pilot makes the request, though, let the buyer beware.


That's not correct. NAVAID usable distance limits are based on MSL
altitudes, service volumes are based on AGL altitudes. It doesn't matter if
the routing is initiated by ATC or requested by the pilot, radar monitoring
is required when operating outside of the specified altitude and distance
limitations in controlled airspace unless approval has been obtained from
the Frequency Management and Flight Inspection Offices to exceed them or the
requested routing is via an MTR.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:nTo6g.175187$bm6.57868@fed1read04...

The "rule" is that direct routes initiated by ATC are limited to the
service volume of VOR (or rarely, NDBs) and the controller can assure that
MIAs will not be violated.

When the pilot makes the request, though, let the buyer beware.



That's not correct. NAVAID usable distance limits are based on MSL
altitudes, service volumes are based on AGL altitudes. It doesn't matter if
the routing is initiated by ATC or requested by the pilot, radar monitoring
is required when operating outside of the specified altitude and distance
limitations in controlled airspace unless approval has been obtained from
the Frequency Management and Flight Inspection Offices to exceed them or the
requested routing is via an MTR.



What did I say that is not correct, and inconsistent with 7110.65 4-1-1?

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:Nd37g.175259$bm6.25645@fed1read04...

What did I say that is not correct, and inconsistent with 7110.65 4-1-1?


"The 'rule' is that direct routes initiated by ATC are limited to the
service volume of VOR (or rarely, NDBs) and the controller can assure that
MIAs will not be violated."

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:Nd37g.175259$bm6.25645@fed1read04...

What did I say that is not correct, and inconsistent with 7110.65 4-1-1?



"The 'rule' is that direct routes initiated by ATC are limited to the
service volume of VOR (or rarely, NDBs) and the controller can assure that
MIAs will not be violated."



What in the following 7110.65 instruction is inconsistant with what I
stated?

4-1-1. ALTITUDE AND DISTANCE LIMITATIONS
When specifying a route other than an established airway or route, do
not exceed the limitations in the table on any portion of the route
which lies within controlled airspace. (For altitude and distance
limitations, see TBL 4-1-1, TBL 4-1-2, TBL 4-1-3, and TBL 4-1-4.) (For
correct application of altitude and distance limitations see FIG 4-1-1
and FIG 4-1-2.)


TBL 4-1-1 - VOR/VORTAC/TACAN NAVAIDs
Normal Usable Altitudes and Radius Distances
Class Altitude Distance (miles)
T 12,000 and below 25
L Below 18,000 40
H Below 14,500 40
H 14,500 - 17,999 100
H 18,000 - FL 450 130
H Above FL 450 100

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:2n57g.175262$bm6.158095@fed1read04...

What in the following 7110.65 instruction is inconsistant with what I
stated?

4-1-1. ALTITUDE AND DISTANCE LIMITATIONS
When specifying a route other than an established airway or route, do not
exceed the limitations in the table on any portion of the route which lies
within controlled airspace. (For altitude and distance limitations, see
TBL 4-1-1, TBL 4-1-2, TBL 4-1-3, and TBL 4-1-4.) (For correct application
of altitude and distance limitations see FIG 4-1-1 and FIG 4-1-2.)


TBL 4-1-1 - VOR/VORTAC/TACAN NAVAIDs
Normal Usable Altitudes and Radius Distances Class Altitude Distance
(miles) T 12,000 and below 25 L Below 18,000 40 H Below 14,500 40 H
14,500 - 17,999 100 H 18,000 - FL 450 130 H Above FL 450 100


TBL 4-1-1 - VOR/VORTAC/TACAN NAVAIDs

Normal Usable Altitudes and Radius Distances
Class Altitude Distance (miles)
T 12,000 and below 25
L Below 18,000 40
H Below 14,500 40
H 14,500 - 17,999 100
H 18,000 - FL 450 130
H Above FL 450 100

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:2n57g.175262$bm6.158095@fed1read04...

What in the following 7110.65 instruction is inconsistant with what I
stated?

4-1-1. ALTITUDE AND DISTANCE LIMITATIONS
When specifying a route other than an established airway or route, do not
exceed the limitations in the table on any portion of the route which lies
within controlled airspace. (For altitude and distance limitations, see
TBL 4-1-1, TBL 4-1-2, TBL 4-1-3, and TBL 4-1-4.) (For correct application
of altitude and distance limitations see FIG 4-1-1 and FIG 4-1-2.)


TBL 4-1-1 - VOR/VORTAC/TACAN NAVAIDs
Normal Usable Altitudes and Radius Distances Class Altitude Distance
(miles) T 12,000 and below 25 L Below 18,000 40 H Below 14,500 40 H
14,500 - 17,999 100 H 18,000 - FL 450 130 H Above FL 450 100



TBL 4-1-1 - VOR/VORTAC/TACAN NAVAIDs

Normal Usable Altitudes and Radius Distances
Class Altitude Distance (miles)
T 12,000 and below 25
L Below 18,000 40
H Below 14,500 40
H 14,500 - 17,999 100
H 18,000 - FL 450 130
H Above FL 450 100


Well, gee wiz, you're better with tabs than I am.

Nonetheless, the references both you and I cite are identical.

So, you didn't answer my question, except to implicitly admit you are
wrong on substance. (ye gads!)