Radio out- Would you fly?

It was back in the days of the F-4 and I saw the smoky exhaust trail before I spotted
the airplane, so it must have been Air Force.

Coulda been Navy(?) The USAF didn't own the only smoke-emitting
Phantoms.

On 5 May 2006 09:09:51 -0700, "Kingfish" wrote
in .com::

Coulda been Navy(?) The USAF didn't own the only smoke-emitting
Phantoms.

Yep. A Navy A-4 even hit a glider in 1986:


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Notice how the NTSB failed to find the military pilot to have
contributed to the cause of this civil/military MAC despite his
violation of § 91.113(d(2): A glider has the right-of-way over an
airship, powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane,
or rotorcraft::


NTSB Identification: LAX86MA186A. The docket is stored on NTSB
microfiche number 31421.

Accident occurred Sunday, April 20, 1986 at WARNER SPRINGS, CA
Aircraft:LTV AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES A7E, registration: USN
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.

A ROLLADEN-SCHNEIDER LS-4 GLIDER AND AN LTV A7E JET COLLIDED OVER HOT
SPRINGS MTN, NEAR WARNER SPRINGS, CA. THE A7E WAS ATTEMPTING A RAPID
PULL UP AND THE GLIDER WAS ATTEMPTING A NOSE DOWN, 30 DEG RIGHT TURN
WHEN THEY COLLIDED. BOTH AIRCRAFT WERE OPERATING UNDER VISUAL FLT
RULES AND LANDED WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT. NEITHER PILOT WAS INJURED.
THE GLIDER LEFT WING OUTBD 3 FT SECTION WAS SEVERED. THE A7E NOSE
COWLING WAS SUBSTANTIALLY DAMAGED AND THE ENGINE INGESTED EXTENSIVE
FIBERGLASS MATERIAL. THE COLLISION OCCURRED AS THE A7E WAS EXECUTING A
SOUTHBOUND TURN ON VR 1257 AND WAS WITHIN THE ROUTE WIDTH (4 NM); THE
GLIDER WAS ATTEMPTING TO GAIN LIFT ON THE WEST SIDE OF HOT SPRINGS MTN
AND WAS WITHIN VR 1257 ROUTE STRUCTURE. THE A7E PLT HAD INFORMED THE
NECESSARY FLT SERV STATIONS THAT THE ROUTE WAS ACTIVE; THE GLIDER PLT
HAD NOT CONTACTED THE FLT SERV STATIONS TO DETERMINE IF THE ROUTE WAS
ACTIVE.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows.

PREFLIGHT PLANNING/PREPARATION..IMPROPER..PILOT OF OTHER AIRCRAFT
IN-FLIGHT PLANNING/DECISION..IMPROPER..PILOT OF OTHER AIRCRAFT
CHECKLIST..POOR..PILOT OF OTHER AIRCRAFT


Contributing Factors

TERRAIN CONDITION..MOUNTAINOUS/HILLY
----------


NTSB Identification: LAX86MA186B. The docket is stored on NTSB
microfiche number 31421.

Accident occurred Sunday, April 20, 1986 at WARNER SPRINGS, CA
Aircraft:ROLADEN-SCHNIDEN LS-4, registration: N50EH
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.

A ROLLADEN-SCHNEIDER LS-4 GLIDER AND AN LTV A7E JET COLLIDED OVER HOT
SPRINGS MTN, NEAR WARNER SPRINGS, CA. THE A7E WAS ATTEMPTING A RAPID
PULL UP AND THE GLIDER WAS ATTEMPTING A NOSE DOWN, 30 DEG RIGHT TURN
WHEN THEY COLLIDED. BOTH AIRCRAFT WERE OPERATING UNDER VISUAL FLT
RULES AND LANDED WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT. NEITHER PILOT WAS INJURED.
THE GLIDER LEFT WING OUTBD 3 FT SECTION WAS SEVERED. THE A7E NOSE
COWLING WAS SUBSTANTIALLY DAMAGED AND THE ENGINE INGESTED EXTENSIVE
FIBERGLASS MATERIAL. THE COLLISION OCCURRED AS THE A7E WAS EXECUTING A
SOUTHBOUND TURN ON VR 1257 AND WAS WITHIN THE ROUTE WIDTH (4NM); THE
GLIDER WAS ATTEMPTING TO GAIN LIFT ON THE WEST SIDE OF HOT SPRINGS MTN
AND WAS WITHIN VR 1257 ROUTE STRUCTURE. THE A7E PLT HAD INFORMED THE
NECESSARY FLT SERV STATIONS THAT THE ROUTE WAS ACTIVE; THE GLIDER PLT
HAD NOT CONTACTED THE FLT SERV STATIONS TO DETERMINE IF THE ROUTE WAS
ACTIVE.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows.

PREFLIGHT PLANNING/PREPARATION..IMPROPER..PILOT IN COMMAND
IN-FLIGHT PLANNING/DECISION..IMPROPER..PILOT IN COMMAND
CHECKLIST..POOR..PILOT IN COMMAND

Contributing Factors

TERRAIN CONDITION..MOUNTAINOUS/HILLY

"Kingfish" wrote in message
oups.com...
It was back in the days of the F-4 and I saw the smoky exhaust trail
before I spotted
the airplane, so it must have been Air Force.

Coulda been Navy(?) The USAF didn't own the only smoke-emitting
Phantoms.

Nope, the J-79 engines used by the USAF were notorious for smoking.
It's one reason their F-4s were called Olde Smokey. During my stint with
Uncle Sam's Misguided Children (USMC), we always knew one of ours from one
of theirs. IIRC, it had something to do with the Navy's (and Marine's)
engines coming from a different source that used some different parts... or
maybe teflon somethingies.

I could be wrong, of course.

Care to weigh in on this Dudley?

Nope, the J-79 engines used by the USAF were notorious for smoking.
It's one reason their F-4s were called Olde Smokey. During my stint
with
Uncle Sam's Misguided Children (USMC), we always knew one of ours from
one
of theirs. IIRC, it had something to do with the Navy's (and Marine's)
engines coming from a different source that used some different
parts... or
maybe teflon somethingies.

Nope what? Read my post again. I said the USAF didn't own the *only*
smoke-belching F-4s, the USN and USMC Phantoms also had the Pratt J79
engines that left the smoke trail IIRC. Far as I know the only F-4s
that didn't smoke were the Royal Navy R-R Spey-engined planes. I too
could be wrong here - where's Dudley when you need him??