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#2
May 10th 06, 07:33 PM
posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
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Scared of mid-airs
Larry
I've been flying over 50 years and have about 23,000 hours logged. I can count the number of near misses with aircraft on one finger. Ya WANNA LIVE FOREVER? sheeesh Rocky aka Ol Shy & Bashful 
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#3
May 10th 06, 10:52 PM
posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
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Scared of mid-airs
OK.
I will not speak my mind on this forum if this is what happens. Thanks to all the insightful posts by all you other people! I just needed to put some statistics into perspective. After all, I witnessed a mid air right before starting my PPL. However, tha last week I've flown a few times, and haven't thought much about it anymore. I guess mr Ol Shy here is flying around his farm in the middle of nowhere at 300 feet in his ultralight. I only have 250 hours total, and have had 3 close encounters. Not really "near misses" apart from one of them, but they were still to me uncomfortably close, so you claiming 23.000 hours with none....? Hmmm...makes you wonder... Frode "Ol Shy & Bashful" skrev i melding oups.com... Larry I've been flying over 50 years and have about 23,000 hours logged. I can count the number of near misses with aircraft on one finger. Ya WANNA LIVE FOREVER? sheeesh Rocky aka Ol Shy & Bashful
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#4
May 10th 06, 11:02 PM
posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
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Scared of mid-airs
Frode
Care to come take a look at my logbooks? I've been flying all over the world and much of it, about 13000 hours, crop dusting. If the thought of a midair scares you, stay on the ground, or in bed..... If you have had several near miisses in your brief career, please let me know where you will be flying so I can avoid the area?
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#5
May 10th 06, 11:20 PM
posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
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Scared of mid-airs
On 05/10/06 15:02, Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
Frode Care to come take a look at my logbooks? I've been flying all over the world and much of it, about 13000 hours, crop dusting. If the thought of a midair scares you, stay on the ground, or in bed..... I assume what you meant was that no one should let the thought of a mid-air collision scare them to the point they cannot fly safely? If any person is *not* afraid of a mid-air collision, they shouldn't be flying. If you have had several near miisses in your brief career, please let me know where you will be flying so I can avoid the area? -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA
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#6
May 11th 06, 01:13 AM
posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
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Scared of mid-airs
"Mark Hansen" wrote in message ... On 05/10/06 15:02, Ol Shy & Bashful wrote: Frode Care to come take a look at my logbooks? I've been flying all over the world and much of it, about 13000 hours, crop dusting. If the thought of a midair scares you, stay on the ground, or in bed..... I assume what you meant was that no one should let the thought of a mid-air collision scare them to the point they cannot fly safely? If any person is *not* afraid of a mid-air collision, they shouldn't be flying. I totally agree with your comment, and in fact have taught every student I've ever had in an airplane, and I mean EVERY student, to spend every second in the air scanning for airplanes that in 99.9% of the time won't be there. It's that extra .1% that will kill you, EVERY TIME!! :-)) Dudley Henriques
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#7
May 11th 06, 02:06 AM
posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
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Scared of mid-airs
Dudley
I too teach all my students to keep their head on a swivel. That doesn't mean they are in fear of mid-airs to the point of incapacitation or night sweats! Regards Rocky
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#8
May 11th 06, 01:26 AM
posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
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Scared of mid-airs
On Wed, 10 May 2006 15:20:32 -0700, Mark Hansen
wrote: On 05/10/06 15:02, Ol Shy & Bashful wrote: Frode Care to come take a look at my logbooks? I've been flying all over the world and much of it, about 13000 hours, crop dusting. If the thought of a midair scares you, stay on the ground, or in bed..... I assume what you meant was that no one should let the thought of a mid-air collision scare them to the point they cannot fly safely? If any person is *not* afraid of a mid-air collision, they shouldn't be flying. We may be dealing in semantics, but fear reduces our ability to function. In some people to the point of being unable to function. I am well aware of the possibility of a collision and I try to remain vigilant and concerned, but I would use the same words old Shy used. No one who is afraid/scared of part of flying should be flying. Address the fear in a realistic manner so it becomes no more than a concern. Then fly. Many students have fears and those are addressed in training and should become things of which we are aware and for which we conduct ourselves in a manner which should reduce or eliminate the chance of the collision. If you have had several near miisses in your brief career, please let me know where you will be flying so I can avoid the area? I've had thee close encounters since 1963. The last was nearly 10 years ago when landing. It was nearly dark and an ultralight pulled right in front of me just a few hundred feet off the ground when I was on final. The two previous "close encounters" were back in the 60's and within a couple of weeks of each other. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com
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#9
May 11th 06, 01:57 AM
posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
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Scared of mid-airs
You're right, it IS a semantics issue.
The issue of handling fear in flight as that pertains to a potential mid-air is far too complicated an issue to draw down into an axiom that suggests a student stay on the ground or in bed if the thought of a mid air "scares them". I just wouldn't handle this situation this way. It can be logically assumed that a pilot should never be in the air "consumed" with a fear of a mid air collision. Anything that even approaches the level of true fear is something no pilot can afford to entertain. But there is another side to this double edged sword, and that is the simple fact that although a pilot should never be experiencing true fear, the same pilot must fly in a constant state of what I will call for the lack of a better term, "an extremely high state of awareness to a possible mid-air". So what the instructor has here is the rather difficult task of suppressing actual fear as we define fear in the accurate sense, while at the same time impressing the student with the absolute importance of maintaining a constant airborne vigil as protection against a possible mid-air. This is an instructional tap dance that can leave a student confused about the issue if nothing else, and it's important that instructors see this and deal with it properly. A pilot stating he is developing a "fear" of having a mid-air after 200 odd hours of flying is a pilot who needs to be shown the difference between fear, which is a negative for him, and constant awareness, which is the positive desired. You can of course sum all this up by simply saying to that pilot; "Keep your damn eyes open, but don't get carried away with it" :-) But I think this issue deserves some airing out, so that the pilot is able to come to a better understanding of himself and his flying. Just my opinion on this FWIW. Dudley "Roger" wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 May 2006 15:20:32 -0700, Mark Hansen wrote: On 05/10/06 15:02, Ol Shy & Bashful wrote: Frode Care to come take a look at my logbooks? I've been flying all over the world and much of it, about 13000 hours, crop dusting. If the thought of a midair scares you, stay on the ground, or in bed..... I assume what you meant was that no one should let the thought of a mid-air collision scare them to the point they cannot fly safely? If any person is *not* afraid of a mid-air collision, they shouldn't be flying. We may be dealing in semantics, but fear reduces our ability to function. In some people to the point of being unable to function. I am well aware of the possibility of a collision and I try to remain vigilant and concerned, but I would use the same words old Shy used. No one who is afraid/scared of part of flying should be flying. Address the fear in a realistic manner so it becomes no more than a concern. Then fly. Many students have fears and those are addressed in training and should become things of which we are aware and for which we conduct ourselves in a manner which should reduce or eliminate the chance of the collision. If you have had several near miisses in your brief career, please let me know where you will be flying so I can avoid the area? I've had thee close encounters since 1963. The last was nearly 10 years ago when landing. It was nearly dark and an ultralight pulled right in front of me just a few hundred feet off the ground when I was on final. The two previous "close encounters" were back in the 60's and within a couple of weeks of each other. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com
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#10
July 29th 06, 05:00 AM
posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
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Scared of mid-airs
"Roger" wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 May 2006 15:20:32 -0700, Mark Hansen wrote: I've had thee close encounters since 1963. The last was nearly 10 years ago when landing. It was nearly dark and an ultralight pulled right in front of me just a few hundred feet off the ground when I was on final. The two previous "close encounters" were back in the 60's and within a couple of weeks of each other. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com Most midair collisions seem to happen on a line aligned with the center of the runway and on an approach course. The classic midair, and probably the most common, is a low wing airplane making a steep final above a highwing airplane making a shallow final. Once they turn final, neither can see the other. The best cure is a thorough scan of the airport traffic area when approaching and a good look all around during all of the turns in the pattern. I also STRONGLY recommend at least a short wings level portion on the base leg when you can excercise the opportunity to thoroughly scan to your right for aircraft on a straight in approach. Remember, they can be on just about any approach slope from 2 degrees up to around 10 degrees. More than 10 degrees and it is probably a space shuttle and you are landing on the wrong runway! :-) Always look for people 100 feet or so above or below the pattern altitude. Also remember that the former "standard" pattern altitude was 800 feet AGL while the current "standard" pattern altitude seems to be 1000 feet AGL. Most airports use one or the other for their pattern altitude. At a strange airport you may easily find yourself proudly using the wrong one, or, if you are useing the correct one someone else may be using the other. Always check both carefully. Also check the pattern on BOTH sides of the runway. Someone may think there is a right/left hand pattern in effect and be using the incorrect one. When winds are light and variable virtually any runway may be in use. I remember one time starting my flare at the Flying W Ranch in New Jersey and looking up and seeing a Cessna 310 doing the exact same thing at the other end of the runway! It got MY attention! :-) Also be extremely careful if there are intersecting runways. Even if they only intersect or almost intersect at one end. I remember one very interesting landing at Philadelphia Internation back in the sixties. I was in a Piper Apache landing to the west. I was number two after a Boeing 720 landing to the south. Those runways kinda intersect at the east end of the EW runway and the north end of the NS runway. The big Boeing went by and touched down off to my left. I was on short final over the river when I suddenly found my self rolling at a very rapid rate well past ninety degrees. I didn't see anyway possible that I could stop the roll and roll back before I landed so I pushed and cranked in the direction of the roll. I completed the roll and came wings level and then the mains touched down. I really hadn't intended an aileron roll on short final, but that's what happened. My charter pax were two airline pilots flying in for their ride. They were a bit pale when they climbed out of that Peachy Apache! Of course I was the cool calm and collected high time charter jock. I thanked them for the business, closed the door, and proceeded to get takeoff clearance back the way I came in, and took off to the east. As I got out over the river the door popped open. The cool, calm and collected high time charter jock hadn't remembered to latch the darn door. I can say from experience that if you are solo in a Piper Apache and the door pops open you are NOT going to get it closed and latched unless you land. There was no way I was going to turn around and go back into PHL! I flew on down to Bridgeton, NJ and landed there and closed and latched the door. Then I flew on home to MIV. Another day in the life of a charter jock! :-) Highflyer Highflight Aviation Services Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )
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