Scared of mid-airs

On Wed, 10 May 2006 15:20:32 -0700, Mark Hansen
wrote:

On 05/10/06 15:02, Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
Frode
Care to come take a look at my logbooks? I've been flying all over the
world and much of it, about 13000 hours, crop dusting.
If the thought of a midair scares you, stay on the ground, or in
bed.....

I assume what you meant was that no one should let the thought of
a mid-air collision scare them to the point they cannot fly safely?

If any person is *not* afraid of a mid-air collision, they shouldn't be
flying.

We may be dealing in semantics, but fear reduces our ability to
function. In some people to the point of being unable to function.

I am well aware of the possibility of a collision and I try to remain
vigilant and concerned, but I would use the same words old Shy used.
No one who is afraid/scared of part of flying should be flying.
Address the fear in a realistic manner so it becomes no more than a
concern. Then fly.

Many students have fears and those are addressed in training and
should become things of which we are aware and for which we conduct
ourselves in a manner which should reduce or eliminate the chance of
the collision.

If you have had several near miisses in your brief career, please let
me know where you will be flying so I can avoid the area?


I've had thee close encounters since 1963. The last was nearly 10
years ago when landing. It was nearly dark and an ultralight pulled
right in front of me just a few hundred feet off the ground when I was
on final. The two previous "close encounters" were back in the 60's
and within a couple of weeks of each other.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

You're right, it IS a semantics issue.
The issue of handling fear in flight as that pertains to a potential mid-air
is far too complicated an issue to draw down into an axiom that suggests a
student stay on the ground or in bed if the thought of a mid air "scares
them". I just wouldn't handle this situation this way.
It can be logically assumed that a pilot should never be in the air
"consumed" with a fear of a mid air collision. Anything that even approaches
the level of true fear is something no pilot can afford to entertain. But
there is another side to this double edged sword, and that is the simple
fact that although a pilot should never be experiencing true fear, the same
pilot must fly in a constant state of what I will call for the lack of a
better term, "an extremely high state of awareness to a possible mid-air".
So what the instructor has here is the rather difficult task of suppressing
actual fear as we define fear in the accurate sense, while at the same time
impressing the student with the absolute importance of maintaining a
constant airborne vigil as protection against a possible mid-air.
This is an instructional tap dance that can leave a student confused about
the issue if nothing else, and it's important that instructors see this and
deal with it properly.
A pilot stating he is developing a "fear" of having a mid-air after 200 odd
hours of flying is a pilot who needs to be shown the difference between
fear, which is a negative for him, and constant awareness, which is the
positive desired.
You can of course sum all this up by simply saying to that pilot;
"Keep your damn eyes open, but don't get carried away with it" :-) But I
think this issue deserves some airing out, so that the pilot is able to come
to a better understanding of himself and his flying.
Just my opinion on this FWIW.
Dudley

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 May 2006 15:20:32 -0700, Mark Hansen
wrote:

On 05/10/06 15:02, Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
Frode
Care to come take a look at my logbooks? I've been flying all over the
world and much of it, about 13000 hours, crop dusting.
If the thought of a midair scares you, stay on the ground, or in
bed.....

I assume what you meant was that no one should let the thought of
a mid-air collision scare them to the point they cannot fly safely?

If any person is *not* afraid of a mid-air collision, they shouldn't be
flying.

We may be dealing in semantics, but fear reduces our ability to
function. In some people to the point of being unable to function.

I am well aware of the possibility of a collision and I try to remain
vigilant and concerned, but I would use the same words old Shy used.
No one who is afraid/scared of part of flying should be flying.
Address the fear in a realistic manner so it becomes no more than a
concern. Then fly.

Many students have fears and those are addressed in training and
should become things of which we are aware and for which we conduct
ourselves in a manner which should reduce or eliminate the chance of
the collision.

If you have had several near miisses in your brief career, please let
me know where you will be flying so I can avoid the area?


I've had thee close encounters since 1963. The last was nearly 10
years ago when landing. It was nearly dark and an ultralight pulled
right in front of me just a few hundred feet off the ground when I was
on final. The two previous "close encounters" were back in the 60's
and within a couple of weeks of each other.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Thu, 11 May 2006 00:57:11 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

You're right, it IS a semantics issue.
The issue of handling fear in flight as that pertains to a potential mid-air
is far too complicated an issue to draw down into an axiom that suggests a
student stay on the ground or in bed if the thought of a mid air "scares
them". I just wouldn't handle this situation this way.
It can be logically assumed that a pilot should never be in the air
"consumed" with a fear of a mid air collision. Anything that even approaches
the level of true fear is something no pilot can afford to entertain. But
there is another side to this double edged sword, and that is the simple
fact that although a pilot should never be experiencing true fear, the same
pilot must fly in a constant state of what I will call for the lack of a
better term, "an extremely high state of awareness to a possible mid-air".

That reminds me... In all my years of flying I've never been lost.
Now I have, on the ground, been extremely "positionally
challenged":-)). Now knowing where you have to be even though you
don't recognize any landmarks has *almost* all the criteria to call it
being lost, but not quite. However even knowing where you have to be
but not being able to verify it can bring a feeling of panic that
takes effort to suppress. Fear is unreasoning.

I have done the same thing flying by intention, (I'm mentioned this
before) down low, lots of maneuvering until I lost all sense of
direction. Then attempted to find land marks and this is in an area
where you have to work to get lost. I made two wide circles and could
not spot the edge of Saginaw Bay which had to be SSE of me. Two full
turns and I could not spot it and there is was, that feeling of unease
building toward panic. However I was still in a state where I could
reason with myself and I knew if all else failed I could use the
radios which were already on two nearby VORs. (Saginaw and West
Branch) However I refused to give in and was determined to find my way
back with nothing more than looking out the windows.

According to the time the sun should be just west of due south. So I
turned until it was in a position that should have me going due south.
Sure enough, off to the SSE was the edge of Saginaw Bay on the
horizon. So I turned to the SW and in about 10 to 12 minutes could
spot Midland on the horizon.

So what the instructor has here is the rather difficult task of suppressing
actual fear as we define fear in the accurate sense, while at the same time
impressing the student with the absolute importance of maintaining a
constant airborne vigil as protection against a possible mid-air.
This is an instructional tap dance that can leave a student confused about
the issue if nothing else, and it's important that instructors see this and
deal with it properly.

My primary instructors put me through about every situation they could
think of to ease any doubts, or rater prevent them from surfacing.

A pilot stating he is developing a "fear" of having a mid-air after 200 odd
hours of flying is a pilot who needs to be shown the difference between
fear, which is a negative for him, and constant awareness, which is the
positive desired.

It's that "developing" that concerns me and I have to wonder what
would have triggered such a response after several hundred hours. Of
course there is such a thing as thinking about negative consequences
too much and conditioning one's self to reinforce feelings we didn't
realize were there. It would be my opinion that it's time to spend
some time with a good instructor to find out why and to allay those
fears and turn them into thoughtful concern. Done early this sort of
thing is far, far easier to handle than later after it's had a chance
to become entrenched.

Over the years I've had some hair raising experiences. Although the
worst ones were in cars I have had some close calls in airplanes as
well and I've seen some really bad ones.

When I totaled the Transam by broadsiding an SUV I had just enough
time to see it coming, but no where to go except through him and being
as I was outweighed over two to one while the SUV was mostly steel and
the TA was largely plastic the odds were not in my favor.

My thoughts in plain language as I watched the hood fold up and the
top of the SUV disappear out of sight above the top of the windshield
was :"Ohhh ****! I'll bet this is gonna hurt!" and a sad "Is this all
there is?" just the instant before the air bags went off. The next
thing I remember is the car spinning across the road and me unable to
see out due to the dust from the air bags. However it did cross my
mind that it might be better that I couldn't see out. Strange how
some of those thoughts pop up. However there was nothing that I would
call fear. Certainly I was concerned, but I remained in control as
long as I physically could. After that I still hung on and rode it
out rather than trying to curl up into a ball.

You can of course sum all this up by simply saying to that pilot;
"Keep your damn eyes open, but don't get carried away with it" :-) But I
think this issue deserves some airing out, so that the pilot is able to come
to a better understanding of himself and his flying.

In this particular case I think he needs to understand that
unreasoning fears can develop and "if possible" discover why he has
developed this fear, how ever on some occasions we never do really
find the triggering event or cause. Still it's usually possible to
turn the fear into a reasonable concern that can be addressed.


Just my opinion on this FWIW.

In my estimation; as usual it's worth quite a bit.

Regards,

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Dudley

"Roger" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 May 2006 15:20:32 -0700, Mark Hansen
wrote:

On 05/10/06 15:02, Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
Frode
Care to come take a look at my logbooks? I've been flying all over the
world and much of it, about 13000 hours, crop dusting.
If the thought of a midair scares you, stay on the ground, or in
bed.....

I assume what you meant was that no one should let the thought of
a mid-air collision scare them to the point they cannot fly safely?

If any person is *not* afraid of a mid-air collision, they shouldn't be
flying.

We may be dealing in semantics, but fear reduces our ability to
function. In some people to the point of being unable to function.

I am well aware of the possibility of a collision and I try to remain
vigilant and concerned, but I would use the same words old Shy used.
No one who is afraid/scared of part of flying should be flying.
Address the fear in a realistic manner so it becomes no more than a
concern. Then fly.

Many students have fears and those are addressed in training and
should become things of which we are aware and for which we conduct
ourselves in a manner which should reduce or eliminate the chance of
the collision.

If you have had several near miisses in your brief career, please let
me know where you will be flying so I can avoid the area?


I've had thee close encounters since 1963. The last was nearly 10
years ago when landing. It was nearly dark and an ultralight pulled
right in front of me just a few hundred feet off the ground when I was
on final. The two previous "close encounters" were back in the 60's
and within a couple of weeks of each other.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 May 2006 00:57:11 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

It's that "developing" that concerns me and I have to wonder what
would have triggered such a response after several hundred hours. Of
course there is such a thing as thinking about negative consequences
too much and conditioning one's self to reinforce feelings we didn't
realize were there. It would be my opinion that it's time to spend
some time with a good instructor to find out why and to allay those
fears and turn them into thoughtful concern. Done early this sort of
thing is far, far easier to handle than later after it's had a chance
to become entrenched.

This is true.
I have had several occasions in my career when I began to have doubts about
my ability to survive the airshow demonstration venue. I know it happens to
"normal" pilots as well. Usually it's exposure to an element of risk that
for some reason you never actually considered as a high risk factor before.
It causes you to step back and re-evaluate your exposure to risk.
This is a key moment in a pilot's career if it ever happens. Most of the
time it doesn't happen and you just continue on flying, but if you are
exposed suddenly to something traumatic like witnessing a crash, the effect
can be profound in some pilots. This is a point where individual
personalities take hold. Most of us who fly, especially those of us who have
flown professionally are deeply into deductive reasoning (even if we don't
know it :-) and adjust to this kind of exposure by rationalization.
I know I've watched many of my friends killed in airshow crashes. My
rationalization of these incidents was such that I recognized the errors
involved and took necessary steps to avoid making these same errors myself,
or in the case of structrual failures, I rethought my own maintainence
program and adjusted. My bottom line on fear was that I avoided it through
rationalization that barring catestrophic events, I was in control of my own
fate in the air.
I think this works well for the everyday pilot also.
Any normal deductive reasoning by a pilot should yield the rationalization
that if a serious effort is made by a pilot to avoid trouble, barring
catestrophic event, the odds are extremely favorable that one can fly an
airplane through an entire lifetime and emerge safely at the other end of
the road.
For the pilot concerned about the possibility of a mid-air; the best way to
avoid having a mid-air is simply to AVOID having a mid-air.
Dudley

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 May 2006 15:20:32 -0700, Mark Hansen
wrote:

I've had thee close encounters since 1963. The last was nearly 10
years ago when landing. It was nearly dark and an ultralight pulled
right in front of me just a few hundred feet off the ground when I was
on final. The two previous "close encounters" were back in the 60's
and within a couple of weeks of each other.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Most midair collisions seem to happen on a line aligned with the center of
the runway and on an approach course. The classic midair, and probably the
most common, is a low wing airplane making a steep final above a highwing
airplane making a shallow final. Once they turn final, neither can see the
other.

The best cure is a thorough scan of the airport traffic area when
approaching and a good look all around during all of the turns in the
pattern. I also STRONGLY recommend at least a short wings level portion on
the base leg when you can excercise the opportunity to thoroughly scan to
your right for aircraft on a straight in approach. Remember, they can be on
just about any approach slope from 2 degrees up to around 10 degrees. More
than 10 degrees and it is probably a space shuttle and you are landing on
the wrong runway! :-)

Always look for people 100 feet or so above or below the pattern altitude.
Also remember that the former "standard" pattern altitude was 800 feet AGL
while the current "standard" pattern altitude seems to be 1000 feet AGL.
Most airports use one or the other for their pattern altitude. At a strange
airport you may easily find yourself proudly using the wrong one, or, if you
are useing the correct one someone else may be using the other. Always
check both carefully.

Also check the pattern on BOTH sides of the runway. Someone may think there
is a right/left hand pattern in effect and be using the incorrect one.
When winds are light and variable virtually any runway may be in use.

I remember one time starting my flare at the Flying W Ranch in New Jersey
and looking up and seeing a Cessna 310 doing the exact same thing at the
other end of the runway! It got MY attention! :-)

Also be extremely careful if there are intersecting runways. Even if they
only intersect or almost intersect at one end. I remember one very
interesting landing at Philadelphia Internation back in the sixties. I was
in a Piper Apache landing to the west. I was number two after a Boeing 720
landing to the south. Those runways kinda intersect at the east end of the
EW runway and the north end of the NS runway. The big Boeing went by and
touched down off to my left. I was on short final over the river when I
suddenly found my self rolling at a very rapid rate well past ninety
degrees. I didn't see anyway possible that I could stop the roll and roll
back before I landed so I pushed and cranked in the direction of the roll.
I completed the roll and came wings level and then the mains touched down.
I really hadn't intended an aileron roll on short final, but that's what
happened. My charter pax were two airline pilots flying in for their ride.
They were a bit pale when they climbed out of that Peachy Apache! Of
course I was the cool calm and collected high time charter jock. I thanked
them for the business, closed the door, and proceeded to get takeoff
clearance back the way I came in, and took off to the east. As I got out
over the river the door popped open. The cool, calm and collected high time
charter jock hadn't remembered to latch the darn door. I can say from
experience that if you are solo in a Piper Apache and the door pops open you
are NOT going to get it closed and latched unless you land. There was no
way I was going to turn around and go back into PHL! I flew on down to
Bridgeton, NJ and landed there and closed and latched the door. Then I flew
on home to MIV. Another day in the life of a charter jock! :-)

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

"Highflyer" wrote in message
...
I remember one time starting my flare at the Flying W Ranch in New Jersey
and looking up and seeing a Cessna 310 doing the exact same thing at the
other end of the runway! It got MY attention! :-)

That was probably Bill Whitesell!
:-)
Dudley

Highflyer schrieb:

I've had thee close encounters since 1963. The last was nearly 10
years ago when landing.

The most dangerous near misses are those which you'll never know.

Stefan

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:01:50 +0200, Stefan
wrote:

Highflyer schrieb:

I've had thee close encounters since 1963. The last was nearly 10
years ago when landing.

The most dangerous near misses are those which you'll never know.

Near miss. No, I've never had one that almost missed me.
The closest was about a foot with the top of the tail of a Comanche
under my seat. Although that vertical stabilizer had to be closer to
that to the wheels on the old Piper Colt. He was flying the express
way low and I do mean low. He had to gain altitude for the overpass
and there we were on final for 36.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Stefan
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Near miss. No, I've never had one that almost missed me.

That would be a "nearly miss". A near miss is a miss. A deep lake is a
lake. A red rose is a rose. A heavy rain is a rain.

A near miss is a miss.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

ATC has a box around each IFR airplane, no other airplane
should be in that box. The size of the box changes, but in
general [somebody will surely correct me] is 1,000 above and
below within a distance of from 5 to 20 miles. Anything
closer and it is a near-miss. When you are close enough to
see the individual rivets or make out the color of the other
pilot's eyes, it is also a near-miss.

{I know, loss of separation}



"Jose" wrote in message
...
| Near miss. No, I've never had one that almost missed me.
|
| That would be a "nearly miss". A near miss is a miss. A
deep lake is a
| lake. A red rose is a rose. A heavy rain is a rain.
|
| A near miss is a miss.
|
| Jose
| --
| The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the
music.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.