Question for controllers

Jim Macklin wrote:
The rule does not require the pilot to say the "magic words"
to have an emergency, nor does it mean that if the words are
not spoken an emergency does not exist. The rules also
require a report IF traffic priority is given. The tower
saw that you were doing something out of the ordinary. They
may have extended another airplane [perhaps an airliner] and
if the airline asked why their fuel bill was $1,000 higher
and 10 minutes late, the tower needs your statement, really
just a N-number, name to CYA.

You're just makin' this **** up. Nowhere does it spell out that if you
do something "unusual" does that then require a report. In the
situation where the gear light failed you ask to have a little
manuvering space to check it out. We give you that and you tell us it
was the bulb. You get the equipment as a matter of course. Whether you
think it is an emergency or not is irrelavant, we do so therefore it is
an emergency. You land safely and there are two lines on the daily log.
Fiorst line states that N12345 has gear difficulty and that the trucks
were rolled. Second line states you landed safely. That's it and the
end of it. That log, like all daily logs, gets kept for a year. They
are not forwarded on to anybody. You will not be asked for a report.
If there is an incident or accident you may be called by the tower for
some information. We had one of the local C310's that is used by a 135
air taxi outfit to deliver bank checks everyday fold up its right main
three weeks ago on landing. Gear ups are by definition an incident and
not an accident. Normally the airport and FBO can get a gear up off the
runway pretty quickly however this time the owner of the plane demanded
that they lift up the plane using two cranes, like you're supposed to to
prevent further damage. It took an extra half hour to locate so the
plane tied up our main runway for over an hour. Many airliners, air
taxi's and biz jets in holding while all of this going on. We never
talked to the pilot of the 310 after the gear up, no need to. The fire
truck guys have their own paperwork but that has nothing to do with the FAA.

"Newps" wrote in message
...


Jim Macklin wrote:
The rule does not require the pilot to say the "magic words" to have an
emergency, nor does it mean that if the words are not spoken an emergency
does not exist. The rules also require a report IF traffic priority is
given. The tower saw that you were doing something out of the ordinary.
They may have extended another airplane [perhaps an airliner] and if the
airline asked why their fuel bill was $1,000 higher and 10 minutes late,
the tower needs your statement, really just a N-number, name to CYA.

You're just makin' this **** up. Nowhere does it spell out that if you do
something "unusual" does that then require a report. In the situation
where the gear light failed you ask to have a little manuvering space to
check it out. We give you that and you tell us it was the bulb. You get
the equipment as a matter of course. Whether you think it is an emergency
or not is irrelavant, we do so therefore it is an emergency. You land
safely and there are two lines on the daily log.

Let's see: He says virtually the same thing and he's "making **** up"?

Read it again and, this time, don't just skim it.

Fiorst line states that N12345 has gear difficulty and that the trucks
were rolled. Second line states you landed safely. That's it and the end
of it. That log, like all daily logs, gets kept for a year. They are not
forwarded on to anybody. You will not be asked for a report. If there is
an incident or accident you may be called by the tower for some
information. We had one of the local C310's that is used by a 135 air
taxi outfit to deliver bank checks everyday fold up its right main three
weeks ago on landing. Gear ups are by definition an incident and not an
accident. Normally the airport and FBO can get a gear up off the runway
pretty quickly however this time the owner of the plane demanded that they
lift up the plane using two cranes, like you're supposed to to prevent
further damage. It took an extra half hour to locate so the plane tied up
our main runway for over an hour. Many airliners, air taxi's and biz jets
in holding while all of this going on. We never talked to the pilot of
the 310 after the gear up, no need to. The fire truck guys have their own
paperwork but that has nothing to do with the FAA.

What is it about the controllers in here that they're ****house lawyers and
have their egos shoved so far up their ass?

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
...


The rules also require a report IF traffic priority is
given.

No such rule.


The tower saw that you were doing something out of the ordinary.

Every controller sees this everyday. If a report were required
everytime somebody does something out of the ordinary there wouldn't be
any trees left.


They may have extended another airplane [perhaps an airliner] and if the
airline asked why their fuel bill was $1,000 higher and 10 minutes late,

They wouldn't and if they did we'd blow them off.



the tower needs your statement, really just a N-number, name to CYA.

We don't need to CYA. We're gonna get sued anyways.


What is it about the controllers in here that they're ****house lawyers and
have their egos shoved so far up their ass?

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Why don't you read posts before clipping....or at least learn to clip
correctly.


"Newps" wrote in message
...


Matt Barrow wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
...


The rules also require a report IF traffic priority is
given.

No such rule.


The tower saw that you were doing something out of the ordinary.

Every controller sees this everyday. If a report were required everytime
somebody does something out of the ordinary there wouldn't be any trees
left.


They may have extended another airplane [perhaps an airliner] and if the
airline asked why their fuel bill was $1,000 higher and 10 minutes late,

They wouldn't and if they did we'd blow them off.



the tower needs your statement, really just a N-number, name to CYA.

We don't need to CYA. We're gonna get sued anyways.


What is it about the controllers in here that they're ****house lawyers
and have their egos shoved so far up their ass?

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

§ 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in
command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly
responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the
operation of that aircraft.

(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action,
the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part
to the extent required to meet that emergency.

(c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under
paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request of the
Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to
the Administrator.

§ 91.123 Compliance with ATC clearances and instructions.
(a) When an ATC clearance has been obtained, no pilot in
command may deviate from that clearance unless an amended
clearance is obtained, an emergency exists, or the deviation
is in response to a traffic alert and collision avoidance
system resolution advisory. However, except in Class A
airspace, a pilot may cancel an IFR flight plan if the
operation is being conducted in VFR weather conditions. When
a pilot is uncertain of an ATC clearance, that pilot shall
immediately request clarification from ATC.

(b) Except in an emergency, no person may operate an
aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which
air traffic control is exercised.

(c) Each pilot in command who, in an emergency, or in
response to a traffic alert and collision avoidance system
resolution advisory, deviates from an ATC clearance or
instruction shall notify ATC of that deviation as soon as
possible.

(d) Each pilot in command who (though not deviating from a
rule of this subpart) is given priority by ATC in an
emergency, shall submit a detailed report of that emergency
within 48 hours to the manager of that ATC facility, if
requested by ATC.

(e) Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person operating
an aircraft may operate that aircraft according to any
clearance or instruction that has been issued to the pilot
of another aircraft for radar air traffic control purposes.



| The rules also require a report IF traffic priority is
| given.
|

--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:3bpag.21673$ZW3.10192@dukeread04...
§ 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in
command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly
responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the
operation of that aircraft.

(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action,
the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part
to the extent required to meet that emergency.

(c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under
paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request of the
Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to
the Administrator.

§ 91.123 Compliance with ATC clearances and instructions.
(a) When an ATC clearance has been obtained, no pilot in
command may deviate from that clearance unless an amended
clearance is obtained, an emergency exists, or the deviation
is in response to a traffic alert and collision avoidance
system resolution advisory. However, except in Class A
airspace, a pilot may cancel an IFR flight plan if the
operation is being conducted in VFR weather conditions. When
a pilot is uncertain of an ATC clearance, that pilot shall
immediately request clarification from ATC.

(b) Except in an emergency, no person may operate an
aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which
air traffic control is exercised.

(c) Each pilot in command who, in an emergency, or in
response to a traffic alert and collision avoidance system
resolution advisory, deviates from an ATC clearance or
instruction shall notify ATC of that deviation as soon as
possible.

(d) Each pilot in command who (though not deviating from a
rule of this subpart) is given priority by ATC in an
emergency, shall submit a detailed report of that emergency
within 48 hours to the manager of that ATC facility, if
requested by ATC.

(e) Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person operating
an aircraft may operate that aircraft according to any
clearance or instruction that has been issued to the pilot
of another aircraft for radar air traffic control purposes.



| The rules also require a report IF traffic priority is
| given.
|


If requested by ATC.

"| If requested by ATC."

THAT IS WHAT I SAID in my first post reply. But if they
don't get your name, how do they contact you IF the airline
asks 6 hours after you leave the airport.
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote
in message
nk.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:3bpag.21673$ZW3.10192@dukeread04...
| § 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in
| command.
| (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly
| responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the
| operation of that aircraft.
|
| (b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate
action,
| the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this
part
| to the extent required to meet that emergency.
|
| (c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under
| paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request of
the
| Administrator, send a written report of that deviation
to
| the Administrator.
|
| § 91.123 Compliance with ATC clearances and
instructions.
| (a) When an ATC clearance has been obtained, no pilot in
| command may deviate from that clearance unless an
amended
| clearance is obtained, an emergency exists, or the
deviation
| is in response to a traffic alert and collision
avoidance
| system resolution advisory. However, except in Class A
| airspace, a pilot may cancel an IFR flight plan if the
| operation is being conducted in VFR weather conditions.
When
| a pilot is uncertain of an ATC clearance, that pilot
shall
| immediately request clarification from ATC.
|
| (b) Except in an emergency, no person may operate an
| aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in
which
| air traffic control is exercised.
|
| (c) Each pilot in command who, in an emergency, or in
| response to a traffic alert and collision avoidance
system
| resolution advisory, deviates from an ATC clearance or
| instruction shall notify ATC of that deviation as soon
as
| possible.
|
| (d) Each pilot in command who (though not deviating from
a
| rule of this subpart) is given priority by ATC in an
| emergency, shall submit a detailed report of that
emergency
| within 48 hours to the manager of that ATC facility, if
| requested by ATC.
|
| (e) Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person
operating
| an aircraft may operate that aircraft according to any
| clearance or instruction that has been issued to the
pilot
| of another aircraft for radar air traffic control
purposes.
|
|
|
| | The rules also require a report IF traffic
priority is
| | given.
| |
|
|
| If requested by ATC.
|
|

Jim Macklin wrote:

(d) Each pilot in command who (though not deviating from a
rule of this subpart) is given priority by ATC in an
emergency, shall submit a detailed report of that emergency
within 48 hours to the manager of that ATC facility, if
requested by ATC.

I have had several emergencies and other urgencies, some even at
towered airports. I have flown no radio into a class B (of
course wouldn't do that now, the airport is in the facist ADIZ
now). ATC has NEVER made such a request. The closest thing
was "give us a call and let us know you're down safe."

"Newps" wrote in message
Would you like some cheese with that whine?

I don't drink, thanks.

My post wasn't meant for pilots to snipe at controllers. It was meant for
enlightenment concerning an incident where the controller declined to
provide priority when asked, and an accident followed.

I'll ask again- In your controller training, are situations addressed
concerning aircraft which request priority but do not declare an emergency?

D. (Where's McNicholl?)

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...

My post wasn't meant for pilots to snipe at controllers. It was meant for
enlightenment concerning an incident where the controller declined to
provide priority when asked, and an accident followed.


What was the request that was denied?



I'll ask again- In your controller training, are situations addressed
concerning aircraft which request priority but do not declare an
emergency?


It isn't strictly "first come, first served". Aircraft in distress have
priority over all others, "Lifeguard" aircraft are given priority over all
but aircraft in distress, etc., etc., etc.


http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp2/atc0201.html#2-1-4