Doors popping open in flight

I've had a door pop open on a Baron, and it does get loud. All of the charts
on the front seat and my jacket nearly got sucked out. The plane definitely
did not fly as well with the door open. The extra drag was very noticeable,
even though it trailed open only around two inches. I was able to get it
partially closed, and the acceleration was very apparent, but I finally gave
up and landed.

While distraction is an issue, the handling was a lot different.

Not on purpose I assure you. The door is the air conditioner most used
during run-up and taxiing. Sometimes I forget to lose it before takeoff.

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Soxinbox,

In my Arrow IV, I have taken off with the door open more than once.


May I ask why?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Jim Macklin wrote:
On a single-engine, a door opening is not serious, but a
twin with a door open and the engine on the opposite side
might get interesting. The open door would probably raise
Vmca because of the air flow disruption on the side where
maximum rudder effectiveness would be required.


Depends on the aircraft and the door. I believe there
is a crash report of a nose baggage door on a twin opening
and making the plane uncontrollable.

Robert M. Gary wrote:
I learned to fly in the summer so we always took off with the doors
open. It really helped keep us cooler. I was surprised teh first time I
found out that most pilots close the doors before flight, even when its
not cold.

-Robert


Doors are for barns. Real airplane have canopies. I've had the
canopy pop open, but then it's legal for me to fly with it open.
Oddly enough, just as with many aircraft doors, the aerodynamic
forces make the Navion canopy want to pretty much close all the
way in flight. You can really only fly with it open if you
latch it open before takeoff. There is a cable that gives you
the leverage to pull it open in flight, but my plane doesn't
have it.

That's what I said, an open door will blank the tail and the
tail is needed for directional and pitch stability and
control.


"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| On a single-engine, a door opening is not serious, but a
| twin with a door open and the engine on the opposite
side
| might get interesting. The open door would probably
raise
| Vmca because of the air flow disruption on the side
where
| maximum rudder effectiveness would be required.
|
|
| Depends on the aircraft and the door. I believe there
| is a crash report of a nose baggage door on a twin opening
| and making the plane uncontrollable.

Long ago, at Albuquerque, a Queen Air had the front cargo door open at
takeoff. A box of Instruments fell out,
knocking off the tip of a left propeller blade with the plane just in the
air. Pilot feathered the left
engine, turned left to go around, went into an inverted spin, and all died.
On Tue, 23 May 2006 21:21:27 -0600, Jim Macklin
wrote:

That's what I said, an open door will blank the tail and the
tail is needed for directional and pitch stability and
control.


"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| On a single-engine, a door opening is not serious, but a
| twin with a door open and the engine on the opposite
side
| might get interesting. The open door would probably
raise
| Vmca because of the air flow disruption on the side
where
| maximum rudder effectiveness would be required.
|
|
| Depends on the aircraft and the door. I believe there
| is a crash report of a nose baggage door on a twin opening
| and making the plane uncontrollable.





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On Fri, 19 May 2006 09:04:51 -0400, "bob" wrote:

How serious is it on small twin engines with only one door? Or with 2
doors, for that matter?

Unless they've changed when it comes to Bonanzas and Barons the
official word from the Air Safety Foundation and American Bonanza
Society is either land and close it, or leave it alone until you get
to your destination otherwise they consider it *should* be a
non-issue.

They had lost enough pilots and passengers due to pilot distraction
trying to close a door that they have one sentence that covers it.
"Don't try to close the door in flight!" and they devoted a section of
in the Bo/Baron specific training to that so every one had a door pop
open at take off or on climb out. In the Deb it sounds like a shotgun
from close range. OTOH that is the cleanest the floor has ever been
in there, but it was briefly IMC in the cockpit.

Each plane is different. Adhere to what ever the manufacture, or
pilots group says.


A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine Piper crash to
investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon the conclusion of
the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was trying to switch
places with someone in the front and the door inadvertently popped open. At
that point the investigator determined, from his own similar experience,
that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical disruption of the airflow
to that could not be corrected in flight.
--The door could not be closed again!---

In many planes this is normal. In a Bonanza and Baron the door is
part of the structure and when it pops open there is over an inch of
mismatch.


As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could. Fortunately, they

This is a prime example of not knowing what should be done along with
wasted time and pain. Unless they are gull type doors they are going
no where with no need to try to hold it closed.

made a safe emergency landing at an island the just happened to be nearby.

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this could
be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because single

It's normally a non issue with trainers, but I can't speak for all
trainers.

engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Some do and some don't.


Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

The only way to know for sure is to read the POH and consult the
manufacturer, (and/or) pilot/owner groups.

The number one problem with doors popping open in flight is pilot
distraction. Just ask the Air Safety Foundation.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Thanks

On Sun, 21 May 2006 03:18:35 GMT, "soxinbox" wrote:

In my Arrow IV, I have taken off with the door open more than once. I
followed the procedures, vents closed, window open, 80 kts??, and slip.
While solo, I was able to close the bottom latch, but not the top. No big

Just remember that door is a structural member in the Arrow, unlike
the Cessna.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

deal, I think the manual even says you can fly like this with no adverse
effects. The other day I had a CFII with me, and same deal, only he could
not close the top or bottom from the passenger seat. I guess the passenger
has less leverage. We just landed and closed the door.

"gatt" wrote in message
news

"bob" wrote in message
. ..

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because
single engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

I posted about this a couple of weeks ago when the door on the Arrow II I
was flying unlatched.

A high-wing door -should- close itself enough that it won't disrupt
airflow. A low-wing door, which is what I was flying, is a little
trickier, I THINK because the low pressure over the wing draws the door
out slightly, but the airflow keeps it closed enough that I determined
that trying to close it in solo flight was more of a distraction that
landing the airplane at a nearby strip and resecuring the door.

My windbreaker and sectional vanished, though.

-c

Beech Bonanza and Baron cabin doors are a very minor
problem. On the Baron the nose baggage door is another
matter. A service bulletin (and recent production
airplanes have a third safety catch which prevent the nose
door from opening more than about 1-2 inches, there is also
a net to secure baggage.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

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"Roger" wrote in message
...
| On Fri, 19 May 2006 09:04:51 -0400, "bob" wrote:
|
| How serious is it on small twin engines with only one
door? Or with 2
| doors, for that matter?
|
| Unless they've changed when it comes to Bonanzas and
Barons the
| official word from the Air Safety Foundation and American
Bonanza
| Society is either land and close it, or leave it alone
until you get
| to your destination otherwise they consider it *should* be
a
| non-issue.
|
| They had lost enough pilots and passengers due to pilot
distraction
| trying to close a door that they have one sentence that
covers it.
| "Don't try to close the door in flight!" and they devoted
a section of
| in the Bo/Baron specific training to that so every one had
a door pop
| open at take off or on climb out. In the Deb it sounds
like a shotgun
| from close range. OTOH that is the cleanest the floor
has ever been
| in there, but it was briefly IMC in the cockpit.
|
| Each plane is different. Adhere to what ever the
manufacture, or
| pilots group says.
|
|
| A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine
Piper crash to
| investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon
the conclusion of
| the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was
trying to switch
| places with someone in the front and the door
inadvertently popped open. At
| that point the investigator determined, from his own
similar experience,
| that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical
disruption of the airflow
| to that could not be corrected in flight.
| --The door could not be closed again!---
|
| In many planes this is normal. In a Bonanza and Baron the
door is
| part of the structure and when it pops open there is over
an inch of
| mismatch.
|
|
| As for my friend with his similar experience, his
friend's hand was all
| bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could.
Fortunately, they
|
| This is a prime example of not knowing what should be done
along with
| wasted time and pain. Unless they are gull type doors
they are going
| no where with no need to try to hold it closed.
|
| made a safe emergency landing at an island the just
happened to be nearby.
|
| I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how
serious this could
| be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is
it because single
|
| It's normally a non issue with trainers, but I can't speak
for all
| trainers.
|
| engines with only one door do not react the same as the
twins.
|
| Some do and some don't.
|
|
| Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go
flying.
|
| The only way to know for sure is to read the POH and
consult the
| manufacturer, (and/or) pilot/owner groups.
|
| The number one problem with doors popping open in flight
is pilot
| distraction. Just ask the Air Safety Foundation.
|
| Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
| (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
| www.rogerhalstead.com
| Thanks
|

Roger wrote:
Just remember that door is a structural member in the Arrow, unlike
the Cessna.


The door opening *frame* may be a structural member, but not the door itself.
I doubt there's any significant cockpit strength difference when the door is
latched vs. unlatched.

--- Jay



--

Jay Masino "Home is where the critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
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