Neat experience today.

Jay Honeck wrote:

The side stick would take some getting used to, but it wasn't bad. I
found the controls to be more sluggish than my 182, but less so than the
Arrow.


That's the first time I've ever heard that before, Matt. I've not flown a
Cirrus, but in the magazines SR-20 handling is usually described as "crisp"
and "responsive".

I haven't read many magazine tests on the SR20, but that is how it felt
to me. Part of it may be that I was flying from the right seat using my
right hand, whereas I'm used to flying with my left hand normally. It
just didn't feel like I had the leverage I do with standard controls,
especially in roll. Rotating the wrist isn't one of the strongest
actions a human can do. I have much more strength with the rotation is
combined with an up or down action so that your biceps and triceps can
get into the action along with the rotation from your forearm.


If the controls are more sluggish than your 182 -- one of the most stable
aircraft every built -- I don't think I'd like a Cirrus much.

Actually, I don't see this as being a bad thing at all. And don't
confuse sluggish controls with stability. The good thing is that it as
less sluggish than anything Piper has built, other than the Tomahawk.
It seemed to have a fair bit of stiction in the column like most Pipers
have unless you have just lubed the control column. It certainly wasn't
like the RV-6 I flew many moons ago. But then I'd not want to fly that
in IMC. Whereas the Cirrus felt like it would be a good IMC platform.

Thanks for the PIREP.

It was really a hoot to get to fly one. Never thought it would happen
this quickly. Some times you are just in the right place at the right time!

It will be hard to be happy with steam gauges again, that is for sure...


Matt

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

stiction

The what???

john smith wrote:

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:


stiction


The what???

Commonly used term for static friction. Static friction is generally
higher than dynamic friction. It is what makes moving mechanisms take
more force to get moving than to keep moving. Makes for jerky controls
and makes very find control adjustments difficults. Cessnas rarely have
this problem, but the Pipers I've flown with those fat control columns
seem very prone to stiction. It makes it hard to do a smooth flare for
instance. You apply back pressure ... and nothing happens. A little
more pressure ... still nothing. A little more pressure ... and the
controls "break free" and you get a 1/2" of control motion.

Often when flying Pipers I know slowly "pump" the controls during the
flare. One of the aviation columnists recently wrote about using this
technique and the advantages of it. I never needed it much in my 182 as
I could gradually pull back the wheel in it. The Arrow isn't nearly as
smooth and a low amplitude, high frequency "pumping" of the wheel tends
to allow smoother arrivals at closer to stall speed.


Matt

Often when flying Pipers I know slowly "pump" the controls during the
flare. One of the aviation columnists recently wrote about using this
technique and the advantages of it. I never needed it much in my 182 as
I could gradually pull back the wheel in it. The Arrow isn't nearly as
smooth and a low amplitude, high frequency "pumping" of the wheel tends
to allow smoother arrivals at closer to stall speed.

I ususally wiggle the yoke (roll axis) as I pull or push to overcome the
"stiction". :-))

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:
snip

Often when flying Pipers I know slowly "pump" the controls during the
flare. One of the aviation columnists recently wrote about using this
technique and the advantages of it. I never needed it much in my 182 as I
could gradually pull back the wheel in it. The Arrow isn't nearly as
smooth and a low amplitude, high frequency "pumping" of the wheel tends to
allow smoother arrivals at closer to stall speed.


Matt

Okay, survey time. We have a lot of Piper pilots on the newsgroups. How
many of you find it necessary to "pump the yoke"to get a smooth low speed
landing? I'll go first... not me. Is something wrong with my airplane or
just every other Piper in the world?

Joe Schneider
N8437R



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JJS wrote:
In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

snip

Often when flying Pipers I know slowly "pump" the controls during the
flare. One of the aviation columnists recently wrote about using this
technique and the advantages of it. I never needed it much in my 182 as I
could gradually pull back the wheel in it. The Arrow isn't nearly as
smooth and a low amplitude, high frequency "pumping" of the wheel tends to
allow smoother arrivals at closer to stall speed.


Matt


Okay, survey time. We have a lot of Piper pilots on the newsgroups. How
many of you find it necessary to "pump the yoke"to get a smooth low speed
landing? I'll go first... not me. Is something wrong with my airplane or
just every other Piper in the world?

I've flown four different Pipers, a Tomahawk, where I didn't notice
excessive stiction. It was very light on the controls, much like the
C150s I learned in.

I've flown two different Cherokee 180s. Both had substantial stiction,
but both were hard used FBO aircraft. My instructor sprayed some
silicon on it one time as it was so bad. This helped for a few hours,
but was short-lived.

I currently fly a Piper Arrow. It has excessive stiction. I don't know
how often the column gets lubed. I'll ask our maintenance officer at
our next club meeting.

Matt

In article ,
"JJS" jschneider@re movecebridge.net wrote:

Okay, survey time. We have a lot of Piper pilots on the newsgroups. How
many of you find it necessary to "pump the yoke"to get a smooth low speed
landing? I'll go first... not me.

Not me (cherokee 140).

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

In article ,
"JJS" jschneider@re movecebridge.net wrote:

Okay, survey time. We have a lot of Piper pilots on the newsgroups. How
many of you find it necessary to "pump the yoke"to get a smooth low speed
landing? I'll go first... not me. Is something wrong with my airplane or
just every other Piper in the world?

If properly maintained and lubricated, the shaft should move freely,
without binding.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JJS" jschneider@re movecebridge.net wrote:

Okay, survey time. We have a lot of Piper pilots on the newsgroups. How
many of you find it necessary to "pump the yoke"to get a smooth low speed
landing? I'll go first... not me. Is something wrong with my airplane
or
just every other Piper in the world?

If properly maintained and lubricated, the shaft should move freely,
without binding.

Bingo. On my old Tomahawk, I had to dip the tip of my index finger into
engine oil and spread it on both yoke shafts about once every six months to
keep everything moving easily. The difference between pre and post-lube
stiction was noticable.

KB

Bingo. On my old Tomahawk, I had to dip the tip of my index finger into
engine oil and spread it on both yoke shafts about once every six months
to keep everything moving easily. The difference between pre and
post-lube stiction was noticable.

I'll bet a little lithium grease would work better, longer, and be less
mess.

Of course, you seldom will have a bit of lithium grease on your dipstick,
when you need it! g
--
Jim in NC