Doors popping open in flight

On Sun, 21 May 2006 03:18:35 GMT, "soxinbox" wrote:

In my Arrow IV, I have taken off with the door open more than once. I
followed the procedures, vents closed, window open, 80 kts??, and slip.
While solo, I was able to close the bottom latch, but not the top. No big

Just remember that door is a structural member in the Arrow, unlike
the Cessna.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

deal, I think the manual even says you can fly like this with no adverse
effects. The other day I had a CFII with me, and same deal, only he could
not close the top or bottom from the passenger seat. I guess the passenger
has less leverage. We just landed and closed the door.

"gatt" wrote in message
news

"bob" wrote in message
. ..

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because
single engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

I posted about this a couple of weeks ago when the door on the Arrow II I
was flying unlatched.

A high-wing door -should- close itself enough that it won't disrupt
airflow. A low-wing door, which is what I was flying, is a little
trickier, I THINK because the low pressure over the wing draws the door
out slightly, but the airflow keeps it closed enough that I determined
that trying to close it in solo flight was more of a distraction that
landing the airplane at a nearby strip and resecuring the door.

My windbreaker and sectional vanished, though.

-c

Roger wrote:
Just remember that door is a structural member in the Arrow, unlike
the Cessna.


The door opening *frame* may be a structural member, but not the door itself.
I doubt there's any significant cockpit strength difference when the door is
latched vs. unlatched.

--- Jay



--

Jay Masino "Home is where the critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

On Wed, 31 May 2006 07:21:50 -0500, (Jay Masino)
wrote:

Roger wrote:
Just remember that door is a structural member in the Arrow, unlike
the Cessna.


The door opening *frame* may be a structural member, but not the door itself.
I doubt there's any significant cockpit strength difference when the door is
latched vs. unlatched.

Consider this.
Open the door in level flight. Now close the door in level flight. It
won't close. Why? If you look, the door shape no longer matches that
of the opening. As I recall on the Cherokee 180 the mismatch was on
the order of half an inch. That means the fuselage flexed about a half
an inch. The door was providing additional, structural strength
albeit it's not critical.

On a Bonanza the mismatch is even more. It's enough that you are not
going to close that door in level flight or without unloading the
airframe which can be done but I doubt it'd be considered a "normal"
maneuver.

On both planes the door is considered part of the structure. It's
just not a critical part of the structure.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


--- Jay

Roger,

If you look, the door shape no longer matches that
of the opening.


Please, look again.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Roger wrote:

Open the door in level flight. Now close the door in level flight. It
won't close. Why? If you look, the door shape no longer matches that
of the opening. As I recall on the Cherokee 180 the mismatch was on
the order of half an inch.

The (4) PA-28 airframes I've flown (mostly 160HP Warriors) will close
quite easily if you follow the POH in-flight door closing procedure.
With the storm window open, cabin vents closed, and the right airspeed,
the door is almost sucked closed.

Was there something wrong with the Cherokee you were flying? G

Roger wrote:
Consider this.
Open the door in level flight. Now close the door in level flight. It
won't close. Why? If you look, the door shape no longer matches that
of the opening. As I recall on the Cherokee 180 the mismatch was on
the order of half an inch. That means the fuselage flexed about a half
an inch. The door was providing additional, structural strength
albeit it's not critical.


I think you're making a wrong assumption. Look at the door, the hinges, and
the latches. There's nothing strong enough to be considered "structural".
The door frame flexes a bit. When you have the door latched securely, first,
the gap remains small. If the door frame flexes a bit, while the door is
open, there's little hope of getting the door to shut as securely.

--- Jay


--

Jay Masino "Home is where the critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com