Transponder Landing System ???

It isn't cheaper when you consider that it requires an operator.

Mike
MU-2


"Gerry Caron" wrote in message
. ..
TLS is a substitute for an ILS where an ILS can't be installed due to
terrain or other factors. It's also a whole lot cheaper than an ILS so
it's
useful for smaller airports. That's good, because it's capacity limited
(more later) so it's not a good solution for busy airports.
It works by using a Mode A interrogator and multiple receivers around the
periphery of the airport. By measuring the time difference of arrival
(TDOA) of your transponder replies, it calculates your position relative
to
the airport and the approach path. It then broadcasts thru an omni
antenna
an "ILS" signal modulating the 90 and 150 Hz tones to drive your CDI to
indicate the proper guidance to the approach path.
To fly it, you have to set your transponder to the squawk code on the
approach plate (so it knows who is flying the approach) and tune your ILS
receiver to the "ILS" freq. The you fly it just like an ILS approach. No
special endorsements or training.
The capacity limitation I mentioned above comes about because only one a/c
can have the approach squawk code set at any one time or the system will
get
confused and flag.
I haven't flown one. Most are in the pacific northwest at small airports
in
the mountains.
Try the following link:
http://anpc.com/

Gerry


"Trent D. Sanders" wrote in message
om...
Have you ever heard of, or have any experience with a thing called the
"Transponder Landing System", a form of IFR approach using a
transponder? What is it, how does it work, does it work, do you have
to have a special "endorsement" to fly it, etc?

TDS
N2997Y

"Mike Rapoport" writes:
"Gerry Caron" wrote
"Trent D. Sanders" wrote

Have you ever heard of, or have any experience with a thing called the
"Transponder Landing System", a form of IFR approach using a
transponder? What is it, how does it work, does it work, do you have
to have a special "endorsement" to fly it, etc?

TLS is a substitute for an ILS where an ILS can't be installed due to
terrain or other factors. It's also a whole lot cheaper than an ILS so
it's useful for smaller airports. That's good, because it's capacity
limited (more later) so it's not a good solution for busy airports.

It works by using a Mode A interrogator and multiple receivers around the
periphery of the airport. By measuring the time difference of arrival
(TDOA) of your transponder replies, it calculates your position relative
to the airport and the approach path. It then broadcasts thru an omni
antenna an "ILS" signal modulating the 90 and 150 Hz tones to drive your
CDI to indicate the proper guidance to the approach path.

To fly it, you have to set your transponder to the squawk code on the
approach plate (so it knows who is flying the approach) and tune your ILS
receiver to the "ILS" freq. The you fly it just like an ILS approach. No
special endorsements or training.

The capacity limitation I mentioned above comes about because only one a/c
can have the approach squawk code set at any one time or the system will
get confused and flag.

I haven't flown one. Most are in the pacific northwest at small airports
in the mountains.

Try the following link: http://anpc.com/

It isn't cheaper when you consider that it requires an operator.

The descriptions given above and other followups don't make it
clear: What's the function of the operator?

You need an operator to asign codes to inbound aircraft (ATC was not going
to do this). Presumably the machine also need to get the code input. There
was talk about putting one in here at SZT but the operator issue killed it
along with comments by the FAA that the localizer would have to be removed.
The TLS was also only going to be approved for a limited number of users
(certainly not part 91 piston airplanes, after all they only comprise 90% of
the airplanes using the airport). It was also only going to be in use for a
limited number of hours per day (when the operator was present)

I think that the solution is precision GPS approaches.

Mike
MU-2


"Everett M. Greene" wrote in message
...
"Mike Rapoport" writes:
"Gerry Caron" wrote
"Trent D. Sanders" wrote

Have you ever heard of, or have any experience with a thing called the
"Transponder Landing System", a form of IFR approach using a
transponder? What is it, how does it work, does it work, do you have
to have a special "endorsement" to fly it, etc?

TLS is a substitute for an ILS where an ILS can't be installed due to
terrain or other factors. It's also a whole lot cheaper than an ILS so
it's useful for smaller airports. That's good, because it's capacity
limited (more later) so it's not a good solution for busy airports.

It works by using a Mode A interrogator and multiple receivers around
the
periphery of the airport. By measuring the time difference of arrival
(TDOA) of your transponder replies, it calculates your position
relative
to the airport and the approach path. It then broadcasts thru an omni
antenna an "ILS" signal modulating the 90 and 150 Hz tones to drive
your
CDI to indicate the proper guidance to the approach path.

To fly it, you have to set your transponder to the squawk code on the
approach plate (so it knows who is flying the approach) and tune your
ILS
receiver to the "ILS" freq. The you fly it just like an ILS approach.
No
special endorsements or training.

The capacity limitation I mentioned above comes about because only one
a/c
can have the approach squawk code set at any one time or the system
will
get confused and flag.

I haven't flown one. Most are in the pacific northwest at small
airports
in the mountains.

Try the following link: http://anpc.com/

It isn't cheaper when you consider that it requires an operator.

The descriptions given above and other followups don't make it
clear: What's the function of the operator?

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message thlink.net...

It isn't cheaper when you consider that it requires an operator.

Mike
MU-2

Does it require a dedicated operator, or can any old controller
hanging out in the tower run it? Out East I can't think of any Class D
fields that don't have at least 1 ILS, but perhaps in other regions
that's sometimes the case?

-cwk.

A tower controller could do it but, like you say, there aren't many towered
fields without a low minimiums approach and no terrain issues. Generally it
is terrain that limits minimiums.

Mike
MU-2


"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
om...
"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
thlink.net...

It isn't cheaper when you consider that it requires an operator.

Mike
MU-2

Does it require a dedicated operator, or can any old controller
hanging out in the tower run it? Out East I can't think of any Class D
fields that don't have at least 1 ILS, but perhaps in other regions
that's sometimes the case?

-cwk.

C Kingsbury wrote:

Out East I can't think of any Class D
fields that don't have at least 1 ILS, but perhaps in other regions
that's sometimes the case?

Sniff Now you've made me feel badly about my home class D airport in
Northern New Jersey, CDW, that has no precision approach (but we do have a
localizer).

I'd feel really badly did I not know that Hartford, in CT, also lacks a
precision approach. They don't even have a localizer; just an LDA.

[I think that this LDA lets you off pointing not at the airport, but at a
now closed airport across a river. But I may be recalling incorrectly.]

- Andrew

In article ne.com,
Andrew Gideon wrote:

C Kingsbury wrote:

Out East I can't think of any Class D
fields that don't have at least 1 ILS, but perhaps in other regions
that's sometimes the case?

Sniff Now you've made me feel badly about my home class D airport in
Northern New Jersey, CDW, that has no precision approach (but we do have a
localizer).

I'd feel really badly did I not know that Hartford, in CT, also lacks a
precision approach. They don't even have a localizer; just an LDA.

[I think that this LDA lets you off pointing not at the airport, but at a
now closed airport across a river. But I may be recalling incorrectly.]

- Andrew

In addition to Hartford and Caldwell, there's also Danburry which only
has a localizer.

Roy Smith wrote in message ...
In article ne.com,
Andrew Gideon wrote:

C Kingsbury wrote:

Out East I can't think of any Class D
fields that don't have at least 1 ILS, but perhaps in other regions
that's sometimes the case?

Sniff Now you've made me feel badly about my home class D airport in
Northern New Jersey, CDW, that has no precision approach (but we do have a
localizer).

I'd feel really badly did I not know that Hartford, in CT, also lacks a
precision approach. They don't even have a localizer; just an LDA.

[I think that this LDA lets you off pointing not at the airport, but at a
now closed airport across a river. But I may be recalling incorrectly.]

- Andrew

In addition to Hartford and Caldwell, there's also Danburry which only
has a localizer.

Duh, Beverly (BVY) which I've flown into also has a localizer-only approach.

Post first, think later...

Best,
-cwk.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote
It isn't cheaper when you consider that it requires an operator.

It doesn't require a DEDICATED operator. There is no reason that the
squawk code could not be issued by the approach/center controller.
Typically, a non-busy airport would have no tower or a VFR tower, so
one-in, one-out. The code could be set by a remote landline from
approach/center, or it could simply use a fixed discrete code that
would not be used for other purposes in that sector.

Michael

Could be, would be, should be...whatever the case, the SZT airport was going
to have to hire a DEDICATED operator. Most uncontrolled fields around here
don't even have a RCO. In theory, I'm sure that you are right.

Mike
MU-2


"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"Mike Rapoport" wrote
It isn't cheaper when you consider that it requires an operator.

It doesn't require a DEDICATED operator. There is no reason that the
squawk code could not be issued by the approach/center controller.
Typically, a non-busy airport would have no tower or a VFR tower, so
one-in, one-out. The code could be set by a remote landline from
approach/center, or it could simply use a fixed discrete code that
would not be used for other purposes in that sector.

Michael