Air Force Aerial Refueling Methods: Flying Boom versus Hose-and-Drogue

Dave Kearton wrote:

Guy Alcala wrote:

I've been wondering -- although it would undoubtedly
eliminate much of the cost and simplicity advantage of probe
and drogue over boom and receptacle, does anyone here think
it would it be technically possible, given modern
miniaturization, to develop a drogue with active
stabilization? After all, KC-10 booms have been FBW for 25
years or so, so given miniaturized controls and inertial
elements, could a drogue be space-stabilized so it didn't
bounce around as much in turbulence? Could you even use
fiber-optics and guide the drogue manually (in multi-place
tankers)? Would such a capability be useful, or is it just
easier to let it move around and have the a/c chase it?
Alternatively, would it be better to have the drogue seek
the probe, in somewhat similar fashion to the way a radar or
IR seeker attempts to null out error messages? Just
thinking out loud in the wee hours.

Guy

surround the basket with hair ?

But seriously folks .....an IR LED on the probe with a receiver on the
basket - should do the trick - with appropriate software & control surfaces,
of course.

So, do any of our local experts who've BTDT think any of this would be
worthwhile, or are they satisfied with the current capability?

Guy

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
Dave Kearton wrote:

Guy Alcala wrote:

I've been wondering -- although it would undoubtedly
eliminate much of the cost and simplicity advantage of probe
and drogue over boom and receptacle, does anyone here think
it would it be technically possible, given modern
miniaturization, to develop a drogue with active
stabilization? After all, KC-10 booms have been FBW for 25
years or so, so given miniaturized controls and inertial
elements, could a drogue be space-stabilized so it didn't
bounce around as much in turbulence? Could you even use
fiber-optics and guide the drogue manually (in multi-place
tankers)? Would such a capability be useful, or is it just
easier to let it move around and have the a/c chase it?
Alternatively, would it be better to have the drogue seek
the probe, in somewhat similar fashion to the way a radar or
IR seeker attempts to null out error messages? Just
thinking out loud in the wee hours.

Guy

surround the basket with hair ?

But seriously folks .....an IR LED on the probe with a receiver on the
basket - should do the trick - with appropriate software & control
surfaces,
of course.

So, do any of our local experts who've BTDT think any of this would be
worthwhile, or are they satisfied with the current capability?

Guy

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..

But seriously folks .....an IR LED on the probe with a receiver on the
basket - should do the trick - with appropriate software & control
surfaces,
of course.

So, do any of our local experts who've BTDT think any of this would be
worthwhile, or are they satisfied with the current capability?


I am sure that there is a defense contractor out there who thinks this idea
is worthwhile....

JD

As an EA-6B guy, I always prefer the nice KC-10 centerline basket. My next
favorite is either WARP or MPRS, however, you do not have enough lateral
trim to compensate for the roll induced by airflow off of the tanker's wing.
So, your arm can get tired and you may not be as smooth as you would like.
But, the wingtip refueling systems are better than the iron maiden during
turbulence once you are in the basket. Although, I have had some rough
KC-135 pilots whip into a 40 degree AOB turn at night and try to rip my
probe off with the maiden basket. Of course, they told me before hand that
the previous receiver had his probe ripped off just ten minutes prior. I
did not think much of it before the big honking turns since I was over Iraq
and had to get back on station to cover rest of my vul. It all worked out
but I remember being fairly frustrated with the tanker pilot. So, my
choices for non-organic tanking is centerline drogue, wingtip drogue and
then KC-135 Iron Maiden.
On another note though, I am disappointed with the lend/lease fiasco from a
few years ago that has delayed suitable replacements to the strategic tanker
force.

Moe


"Joe Delphi" wrote in message
news:ODSpg.10012$6w.7545@fed1read11...
"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..

But seriously folks .....an IR LED on the probe with a receiver on the
basket - should do the trick - with appropriate software & control
surfaces,
of course.

So, do any of our local experts who've BTDT think any of this would be
worthwhile, or are they satisfied with the current capability?


I am sure that there is a defense contractor out there who thinks this
idea is worthwhile....

JD

Just happy I was Navy so I could poke instead of getting poked