Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:

Andrew Venor wrote:
Matt Giwer wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Dean A. Markley wrote:
Israel need not hit Damascus. All they need do is hit Assad's house
near Latakia with a 2000 lb bomb.
True. The advantage of hitting Damascus, though, especially if it's
repeated and especially if collateral damage kills some rich Damascene
civilians, is that it brings home to Syria that there could be a _big_
personal cost, felt by the Syrian ruling elite, for supporting attacks
on Israel. Heck, I think that Israel should _target_ Assad, and then
others in the Syrian leadership, in the hopes of making that country
collapse into civil war as the hyena-like survivors struggle for
supremacy.
The Syrian elite has spent a good deal of the last few decades causing
chaos in Lebanon and death everywhere abroad. Let them have a taste of
what it's like, at home. Couldn't happen to a nicer buncha guys

Don't you think it would help its international position for
Israel to end its occupation of southern Syria before making demands
on Syria? It has been well known for year in Israel, right from Moshe
Dayan, that it provoked Syria into defending itself during the 1967
war solely for the purpose of stealing the Syrian Heights.

Do you mean the Golan Heights, where the Syrian Army had been firing
artillery down on Israeli civilians for the eighteen years preceding the
1967 war?

Actually I was refering to the shelling of Israelis who were living on stolen
Syrian land fronting the Sea of Galilee. Syria certainly has a right to shell
its own territory

I have similarly suggested Syria lease the Heights to Iran as a down range
missile test range.

If there was a dispute over the land in question then it could certainly have
been put to international arbitration.

In any event, despite the Israeli propaganda, Moshe Dayan give the real and
only reason for provoking Syria. To steal the land. That is what he said. It has
been confirmed by his daughter.

It was this revelation which shot down the Israeli propaganda. The propaganda
has been discredited. There is no point in trying to resurrect it today.

--
A passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of
evils.
Pro-Israel is anti-American.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3642
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
Lawful to bomb Israelis http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/bombings.phtml a11

Matt Giwer wrote:

Andrew Venor wrote:

Matt Giwer wrote:

Jordan wrote:

Dean A. Markley wrote:

Israel need not hit Damascus. All they need do is hit Assad's house
near Latakia with a 2000 lb bomb.

True. The advantage of hitting Damascus, though, especially if it's
repeated and especially if collateral damage kills some rich Damascene
civilians, is that it brings home to Syria that there could be a _big_
personal cost, felt by the Syrian ruling elite, for supporting attacks
on Israel. Heck, I think that Israel should _target_ Assad, and then
others in the Syrian leadership, in the hopes of making that country
collapse into civil war as the hyena-like survivors struggle for
supremacy.
The Syrian elite has spent a good deal of the last few decades causing
chaos in Lebanon and death everywhere abroad. Let them have a taste of
what it's like, at home. Couldn't happen to a nicer buncha guys


Don't you think it would help its international position for
Israel to end its occupation of southern Syria before making demands
on Syria? It has been well known for year in Israel, right from Moshe
Dayan, that it provoked Syria into defending itself during the 1967
war solely for the purpose of stealing the Syrian Heights.


Do you mean the Golan Heights, where the Syrian Army had been firing
artillery down on Israeli civilians for the eighteen years preceding
the 1967 war?


Actually I was refering to the shelling of Israelis who were living
on stolen Syrian land fronting the Sea of Galilee. Syria certainly has a
right to shell its own territory

I have similarly suggested Syria lease the Heights to Iran as a down
range missile test range.

If there was a dispute over the land in question then it could
certainly have been put to international arbitration.

In any event, despite the Israeli propaganda, Moshe Dayan give the
real and only reason for provoking Syria. To steal the land. That is
what he said. It has been confirmed by his daughter.

It was this revelation which shot down the Israeli propaganda. The
propaganda has been discredited. There is no point in trying to
resurrect it today.


Ignoring inconvenient facts like the eighteen years of Syrian artillery
raining down from the Golan Heights on Israeli civilians just because it
doesn't fit your anti-Semitic view of the world tells us all we need to
know about what kind of person you are.

To quote the late American Ambassador and Senator Daniel Patrick
Moynihan, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not
entitled to their own facts."

I don't know how you got out of my kill file, but your going right back in.

ALV

Andrew Venor wrote:
Ignoring inconvenient facts like the eighteen years of Syrian artillery
raining down from the Golan Heights on Israeli civilians just because it
doesn't fit your anti-Semitic view of the world tells us all we need to
know about what kind of person you are.

Oh, no, Matt doesn't _ignore_ it. He _celebrates_ it. He believes
that Israel is so inherently illegitimate as a nation that any and all
Arabs have the right to kill Israelis whenever they want to, for no
provocation other than Israel's own existence.

He's said so explicitly, more than once.

The thing that we should all be aware of is that this is _also_ the
official POV of pretty much every Arab country, even the so-called
"moderate" ones. It's what they teach in their schools, it's what they
grow up believing, and it's why Israel has to retain its defenses and
eschew liberal goodwill in its foreign policy if Israel is to survive.

Sincerely Yours,
Jordan

Jordan wrote:
Andrew Venor wrote:

Ignoring inconvenient facts like the eighteen years of Syrian artillery
raining down from the Golan Heights on Israeli civilians just because it
doesn't fit your anti-Semitic view of the world tells us all we need to
know about what kind of person you are.

Oh, no, Matt doesn't _ignore_ it. He _celebrates_ it.

I recited the only reason Moshe Dayan gave for it. That Izziehuggers find the
truth inconvenient does not make the truth antisemitic. Dayan considered one of
the two greatest mistakes of his career.

He believes
that Israel is so inherently illegitimate as a nation that any and all
Arabs have the right to kill Israelis whenever they want to, for no
provocation other than Israel's own existence.

I have never said that. I have said Palestinians have ever right to reclaim
their private property and resist military occupation by any means available. I
have said other nations have every right to assist the Palestinians in their
fight for justice as the US has assisted so many other peoples in their fight
for justice and to end foreign occupation.

He's said so explicitly, more than once.

Again you lie about what I have said. You always do. And when challenged you
can never produce any post of mine which supports what you claim I have said.

And the reason you never produce any post of mine is that I always give the
legal basis for what I have said.

To date NO ONE has even bothered to try to challenge the legal basis for what I
say.

Why do not you be the first?

The thing that we should all be aware of is that this is _also_ the
official POV of pretty much every Arab country, even the so-called
"moderate" ones. It's what they teach in their schools, it's what they
grow up believing, and it's why Israel has to retain its defenses and
eschew liberal goodwill in its foreign policy if Israel is to survive.

Does a nation of war criminals have a right to survive? Or must the world
demand it cease its criminal activities as a condition of survival? The
occupation of Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Syrian Heights are
criminal as are all the citizens of Israel who live there, have lived there or
who support the occupation in any way such as with tax money.

--
There are two kinds of Europeans. Those who accept the holy holocaust and
those who are in prison.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3659
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
antisemitism http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/ a1

Matt Giwer wrote:



Does a nation of war criminals have a right to survive?

If they have the might. The U.S. became a great nation by practicing
genocide on the aboriginal nations. That is how The West Was Won. Dead
Injuns.

I think the Israelis should give it all back the day after the U.S.
returns the Great Plains to the descendants of the Indians whom our
predecessors killed to get the land. When do you think that will happen?

Bob Kolker

"Robert Kolker" wrote in message
. ..
Matt Giwer wrote:



Does a nation of war criminals have a right to survive?

If they have the might. The U.S. became a great nation by practicing
genocide on the aboriginal nations. That is how The West Was Won. Dead
Injuns.

I think the Israelis should give it all back the day after the U.S.
returns the Great Plains to the descendants of the Indians whom our
predecessors killed to get the land. When do you think that will happen?

Bob Kolker


Good point. Pretty much every country that exists today was created at
someone elses expense, often displacing groups that had previously displaced
other groups, and on and on...

Jarg

Jarg wrote:
"Robert Kolker" wrote in message
. ..
Matt Giwer wrote:
Does a nation of war criminals have a right to survive?
If they have the might. The U.S. became a great nation by practicing
genocide on the aboriginal nations. That is how The West Was Won. Dead
Injuns.

I think the Israelis should give it all back the day after the U.S.
returns the Great Plains to the descendants of the Indians whom our
predecessors killed to get the land. When do you think that will happen?

Good point. Pretty much every country that exists today was created at
someone elses expense, often displacing groups that had previously displaced
other groups, and on and on...

In addition to my response to him please tell me how this is a good response?
Even if the US had no treaties with the Indians how does the comparison to
Wounded Knee make Israel look good? These days we cheer for the Indians at
Little Big Horn. Why do you think he invites cheering the Palestinians because
they are being treated like the Indians?

--
When western nations renounce the right to resistance to foreign occupation
they can honestly demand Palestinians do so.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3650
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
antisemitism http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/ a1

Jarg wrote:



Good point. Pretty much every country that exists today was created at
someone elses expense, often displacing groups that had previously displaced
other groups, and on and on...

The human race is a nasty species. We are the baddest smartest apes in
The Monkey House.

Bob Kolker

Robert Kolker wrote:
Matt Giwer wrote:
Does a nation of war criminals have a right to survive?

If they have the might. The U.S. became a great nation by practicing
genocide on the aboriginal nations. That is how The West Was Won. Dead
Injuns.

So Israel is no better than 19th c. America? Is that the best argument you can
come up with?

As you know although cannot deal with as an Izziehugger the rules changed
during WWII. After WWII the changes were put in writing. Israel signed the
treaty against genocide while committing genocide. Israel has not yet followed
its obligation under the genocide treaty by passing laws to make the provisions
of the genocide treaty criminal in Israel.

I think the Israelis should give it all back the day after the U.S.
returns the Great Plains to the descendants of the Indians whom our
predecessors killed to get the land. When do you think that will happen?

Israel does not have even one treaty with Palestinians.

The US not only has treaties with the Indians for all the lands but the tribes
have gone to court demanding enforcement of them thus recognizing them as lawful.

When do you think Israel will get the first treaty with the Palestinians?

This is far from the first time I have posted such facts and at least twice to
you and as yet you have not had a rational response. Is your problem that the
facts do not register on braindead Zionists?

--
If the war on terror stops the price of oil goes back to $30 per barrel and
all the investments in ethanol plants go into bankruptcy.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3667
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
Mission Accomplished http://www.giwersworld.org/opinion/mission.phtml a12

On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 21:48:42 -0500, Robert Kolker wrote:

Matt Giwer wrote:



Does a nation of war criminals have a right to survive?

If they have the might. The U.S. became a great nation by practicing
genocide on the aboriginal nations. That is how The West Was Won. Dead
Injuns.

I think the Israelis should give it all back the day after the U.S.
returns the Great Plains to the descendants of the Indians whom our
predecessors killed to get the land. When do you think that will happen?

Great Plains? We want our whole continent back white man, and take all
the descendants of the Spainards with you.