Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:

Jordan wrote:
Andrew Venor wrote:

Ignoring inconvenient facts like the eighteen years of Syrian artillery
raining down from the Golan Heights on Israeli civilians just because it
doesn't fit your anti-Semitic view of the world tells us all we need to
know about what kind of person you are.

Oh, no, Matt doesn't _ignore_ it. He _celebrates_ it.

I recited the only reason Moshe Dayan gave for it. That Izziehuggers find the
truth inconvenient does not make the truth antisemitic. Dayan considered one of
the two greatest mistakes of his career.

He believes
that Israel is so inherently illegitimate as a nation that any and all
Arabs have the right to kill Israelis whenever they want to, for no
provocation other than Israel's own existence.

I have never said that. I have said Palestinians have ever right to reclaim
their private property and resist military occupation by any means available. I
have said other nations have every right to assist the Palestinians in their
fight for justice as the US has assisted so many other peoples in their fight
for justice and to end foreign occupation.

He's said so explicitly, more than once.

Again you lie about what I have said. You always do. And when challenged you
can never produce any post of mine which supports what you claim I have said.

And the reason you never produce any post of mine is that I always give the
legal basis for what I have said.

To date NO ONE has even bothered to try to challenge the legal basis for what I
say.

Why do not you be the first?

The thing that we should all be aware of is that this is _also_ the
official POV of pretty much every Arab country, even the so-called
"moderate" ones. It's what they teach in their schools, it's what they
grow up believing, and it's why Israel has to retain its defenses and
eschew liberal goodwill in its foreign policy if Israel is to survive.

Does a nation of war criminals have a right to survive? Or must the world
demand it cease its criminal activities as a condition of survival? The
occupation of Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Syrian Heights are
criminal as are all the citizens of Israel who live there, have lived there or
who support the occupation in any way such as with tax money.

--
There are two kinds of Europeans. Those who accept the holy holocaust and
those who are in prison.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3659
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
antisemitism http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/ a1

Matt Giwer wrote:



Does a nation of war criminals have a right to survive?

If they have the might. The U.S. became a great nation by practicing
genocide on the aboriginal nations. That is how The West Was Won. Dead
Injuns.

I think the Israelis should give it all back the day after the U.S.
returns the Great Plains to the descendants of the Indians whom our
predecessors killed to get the land. When do you think that will happen?

Bob Kolker

"Robert Kolker" wrote in message
. ..
Matt Giwer wrote:



Does a nation of war criminals have a right to survive?

If they have the might. The U.S. became a great nation by practicing
genocide on the aboriginal nations. That is how The West Was Won. Dead
Injuns.

I think the Israelis should give it all back the day after the U.S.
returns the Great Plains to the descendants of the Indians whom our
predecessors killed to get the land. When do you think that will happen?

Bob Kolker


Good point. Pretty much every country that exists today was created at
someone elses expense, often displacing groups that had previously displaced
other groups, and on and on...

Jarg

Jarg wrote:
"Robert Kolker" wrote in message
. ..
Matt Giwer wrote:
Does a nation of war criminals have a right to survive?
If they have the might. The U.S. became a great nation by practicing
genocide on the aboriginal nations. That is how The West Was Won. Dead
Injuns.

I think the Israelis should give it all back the day after the U.S.
returns the Great Plains to the descendants of the Indians whom our
predecessors killed to get the land. When do you think that will happen?

Good point. Pretty much every country that exists today was created at
someone elses expense, often displacing groups that had previously displaced
other groups, and on and on...

In addition to my response to him please tell me how this is a good response?
Even if the US had no treaties with the Indians how does the comparison to
Wounded Knee make Israel look good? These days we cheer for the Indians at
Little Big Horn. Why do you think he invites cheering the Palestinians because
they are being treated like the Indians?

--
When western nations renounce the right to resistance to foreign occupation
they can honestly demand Palestinians do so.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3650
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
antisemitism http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/ a1

Matt Giwer wrote:

In addition to my response to him please tell me how this is a good
response? Even if the US had no treaties with the Indians how does the
comparison to Wounded Knee make Israel look good? These days we cheer
for the Indians at Little Big Horn. Why do you think he invites cheering
the Palestinians because they are being treated like the Indians?

Good for the goose, good for the gander. I think it is unjust to ask the
Israelis to be better than we are.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Bob Kolker

Robert Kolker wrote:
Matt Giwer wrote:
In addition to my response to him please tell me how this is a
good response? Even if the US had no treaties with the Indians how
does the comparison to Wounded Knee make Israel look good? These days
we cheer for the Indians at Little Big Horn. Why do you think he
invites cheering the Palestinians because they are being treated like
the Indians?

Good for the goose, good for the gander. I think it is unjust to ask the
Israelis to be better than we are.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

First get treaties with the Palestinians ceded land to the murderous Zionists.
Then we can talk.

--
The good thing about the Hamas win in Palestine is the US stopped pushing
for democratic elections in Syria. The only way to get sense into a neocon
is with a two by four.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3639
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
book review http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/wi...utioners.phtml a7

Matt Giwer wrote:

Robert Kolker wrote:

Matt Giwer wrote:

In addition to my response to him please tell me how this is a
good response? Even if the US had no treaties with the Indians how
does the comparison to Wounded Knee make Israel look good? These days
we cheer for the Indians at Little Big Horn. Why do you think he
invites cheering the Palestinians because they are being treated like
the Indians?


Good for the goose, good for the gander. I think it is unjust to ask
the Israelis to be better than we are.


Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.


First get treaties with the Palestinians ceded land to the murderous
Zionists. Then we can talk.

One does not treat with people trying to murder one.

Bob Kolker

"Matt Giwer" wrote in message
...
Jarg wrote:
"Robert Kolker" wrote in message
. ..
Matt Giwer wrote:
Does a nation of war criminals have a right to survive?
If they have the might. The U.S. became a great nation by practicing
genocide on the aboriginal nations. That is how The West Was Won. Dead
Injuns.

I think the Israelis should give it all back the day after the U.S.
returns the Great Plains to the descendants of the Indians whom our
predecessors killed to get the land. When do you think that will happen?

Good point. Pretty much every country that exists today was created at
someone elses expense, often displacing groups that had previously
displaced other groups, and on and on...

In addition to my response to him please tell me how this is a good
response? Even if the US had no treaties with the Indians how does the
comparison to Wounded Knee make Israel look good? These days we cheer for
the Indians at Little Big Horn. Why do you think he invites cheering the
Palestinians because they are being treated like the Indians?

--


Maybe you cheer for the Indians, I just see the inevitable results of a
conflict between people's of vastly different resources and technology.

Israel's existence is a fact which will not change no matter how much the
Palestinians wish otherwise. The sooner they stop their deluded dreaming,
the sooner the situation can be resolved.

Jarg

Jarg wrote:
"Matt Giwer" wrote in message
...
Jarg wrote:
"Robert Kolker" wrote in message
om...
Matt Giwer wrote:
Does a nation of war criminals have a right to survive?
If they have the might. The U.S. became a great nation by practicing
genocide on the aboriginal nations. That is how The West Was Won. Dead
Injuns.
I think the Israelis should give it all back the day after the U.S.
returns the Great Plains to the descendants of the Indians whom our
predecessors killed to get the land. When do you think that will happen?
Good point. Pretty much every country that exists today was created at
someone elses expense, often displacing groups that had previously
displaced other groups, and on and on...

In addition to my response to him please tell me how this is a good
response? Even if the US had no treaties with the Indians how does the
comparison to Wounded Knee make Israel look good? These days we cheer for
the Indians at Little Big Horn. Why do you think he invites cheering the
Palestinians because they are being treated like the Indians?

Maybe you cheer for the Indians, I just see the inevitable results of a
conflict between people's of vastly different resources and technology.

Israel's existence is a fact which will not change no matter how much the
Palestinians wish otherwise. The sooner they stop their deluded dreaming,
the sooner the situation can be resolved.

You do not think in terms of reality. Without US charity Israel would be an
economic basket case and people would be leaving in droves. Without US
diplomatic support an economic embargo would have been slapped in Israel decades
ago. Shut off it oil and the lights go out in a week just as in Gaza so they get
no sympathy over living in the dark.

All it takes is for the US to stop acting against its own interests and stop
supporting Israel. When that happens the country is over. With US charity runing
10-30% of the Knesset budget each year (some times higher) and all the tax
breaks in its favor it manages and enconomy equal to the lowest in Europe --
exclusive of the Balkans at the moment.

Who is going to stay with a third world economy when most European countries
permit the grandchildren of emigrants to return no questions asked? The way to
avoid this is to put the military on a shoestring budget to make up the
difference. It can't have both. And without the military technology they steal
from the US they quickly fall behind the curve and no one wants to buy what they
make.

Without US diplomatic cover Israel will finally have to make peace with its
neighbors. For one that means they have to abandon the Syrian Heights for peace
with Syria. That means it has to buy 20% of its water from Syria if Syria
chooses to sell it. It has to make peace with the Palestinians and withdraw to
its 1948 borders. That means it has to buy another 30% of its water from them if
they choose to sell it. Don't get upset though. If they do not buy any water
they will have several times more per capita than the Palestinians have now.

This gives you the flavor of it. I can add other things but that is enough for
now.

--
No democracy has the right to keep secret facts which could materially
affect any election.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3646
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
http://www.giwersworld.org

"Matt Giwer" wrote in message
. ..

What I meant to say is the sooner the Palestinians and people like you stop
their deluded dreaming, the sooner the situation can be resolved. Really,
you just wasted your time describing a bunch of hypotheticals that will not
occur. But hey, if the Palestinians want to wallow for another 50+ years
waiting for this to happen, that is their problem.

Jarg