Do you allow landings on short fields?

In article ,
Marty Shapiro wrote:
The other club I checked only prohibits landings on dirt, sod, or
gravel runways - or at any airport that is not listed in the AF/D unless
prior approval is given by the club manager or chief pilot. They also
prohibit touch & goes by primary students if the runway is less than 4,000'
and for anyone in a retract, high performance, or turbocharged aircraft. A
club mountain flying checkout is required for operations at an airport
higher than 2,000' MSL or over mountanous terrain over 8'000' MSL.

If this is the club I'm thinking of, they're also know for having
rules for just about everything. They probably don't have a generic
runway requirement due to the fact that they are based out of
airports with ~2500ft runways.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

(John Clear) wrote in
:

In article ,
Marty Shapiro wrote:
The other club I checked only prohibits landings on dirt,
sod, or
gravel runways - or at any airport that is not listed in the AF/D
unless prior approval is given by the club manager or chief pilot.
They also prohibit touch & goes by primary students if the runway is
less than 4,000' and for anyone in a retract, high performance, or
turbocharged aircraft. A club mountain flying checkout is required for
operations at an airport higher than 2,000' MSL or over mountanous
terrain over 8'000' MSL.

If this is the club I'm thinking of, they're also know for having
rules for just about everything. They probably don't have a generic
runway requirement due to the fact that they are based out of
airports with ~2500ft runways.

John

Yep, that's the club. At least they have removed the 3,000'
restriction. One of the clubs quickly recovered when I asked where to
return the aircraft and said the restriction only applied to non-towered
fields. How or why the presence of a control tower should make a
difference, I don't know.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Marty Shapiro wrote:
Yep, that's the club. At least they have removed the 3,000'
restriction. One of the clubs quickly recovered when I asked where to
return the aircraft and said the restriction only applied to non-towered
fields. How or why the presence of a control tower should make a
difference, I don't know.

The tower will make some effort to see that you land into the wind.
Downwind landings and short runways make a bad combination.

In article , Roy Smith wrote:

The tower will make some effort to see that you land into the wind.

The tower will make some effort, but sometimes it takes awhile for
them to spin things around, especially when the pattern is busy.

Downwind landings and short runways make a bad combination.

I was flying the pattern at Palo Alto (PAO) one day when the winds
were favoring 12, and then changed to a crosswind and then a ~5kt
tailwind. There was the usual 10+ planes in the pattern. I was
told I was going to be the last to land on 12 before they spun the
pattern around for 30. Unfortunately, the wind was picking up,
and I needed the runway to be about 10ft longer. Fortunately, the
plane wasn't damaged by the trip into the weeds. A few minutes later
the wind was reported as 10kts pretty much straight down the runway.
The runway at PAO is 13/31 now, so this happened quite a while ago.

It was quite eye opening to sit and calculate the landing roll with
a 10kt tailwind. It doesn't sound like much, but it will basically
double the distance needed.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

John,

I was flying the pattern at Palo Alto (PAO)


Wonder why you just happen mention THAT airport ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Roy Smith wrote:
Marty Shapiro wrote:
Yep, that's the club. At least they have removed the 3,000'
restriction. One of the clubs quickly recovered when I asked where to
return the aircraft and said the restriction only applied to non-towered
fields. How or why the presence of a control tower should make a
difference, I don't know.

The tower will make some effort to see that you land into the wind.
Downwind landings and short runways make a bad combination.


Gee never known a tower to accept that responsiblity. As a matter
of fact I've had a few try to land me downwind. At least at an
uncontrolled field I don't even have to ask to take the preferred
runway.

(Roy Smith) wrote in :

Marty Shapiro wrote:
Yep, that's the club. At least they have removed the 3,000'
restriction. One of the clubs quickly recovered when I asked where to
return the aircraft and said the restriction only applied to non-towered
fields. How or why the presence of a control tower should make a
difference, I don't know.

The tower will make some effort to see that you land into the wind.
Downwind landings and short runways make a bad combination.



Don't bet on it. I've been cleared for a downwind landing landing
many times. When the aircraft/runway/wind will permit a safe downwind
landing, I take it, otherwise I reply "unable" and insist on the other
direction.

We have a regional flow pattern and the winds at SFO pretty much
dictate the direction at all the towered airports around the bay (OAK, SQL,
PAO, NUQ, HWD, SJC, RHV). To turn the flow around, ATC coordinates with all
8 airports. (Slides 30 & 31 in the power point presentation available at
http://sdg.lcs.mit.edu/workshop/atc_overview_nn.ppt show the two traffic
flow patterns for the 3 main airports (SFO, OAK, SJC) in the San Francisco
Bay Area). There are times when the winds at SFO will be opposite those at
SJC.

I do agree that downwind landings and short runways are a bad
combination, but having a control tower does NOT guarantee you won't be
cleared for one.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

John Clear wrote:

If this is the club I'm thinking of, they're also know for having
rules for just about everything.

Looks an awful lot like a club I know which operates from a
2443 x 70 ft runway :-) I am pretty sure -- but then I left quite
a while ago for saner pastures -- they have a checkout
procedure -- and currency requirements -- for the use of the
bathroom... the funny thing though is that all these rules don't
seem to do much good to their safety record, but I digress.

--Sylvain

In article ,
Sylvain wrote:

John Clear wrote:

If this is the club I'm thinking of, they're also know for having
rules for just about everything.

Looks an awful lot like a club I know which operates from a
2443 x 70 ft runway :-) I am pretty sure -- but then I left quite
a while ago for saner pastures -- they have a checkout
procedure -- and currency requirements -- for the use of the
bathroom... the funny thing though is that all these rules don't
seem to do much good to their safety record, but I digress.

--Sylvain

It also sounds like a club that had a "spot the maintenance flaws"
contest one day, several years ago. They rigged a Cessna 152 with about
20 deliberate maintenance flaws and conducted a test for their members
to spot the flaws on a preflight.

A good friend of mine, who instructed there, and had had a set of major
problems with a homebuilt he had bought, entered the contest and
proceeded to find not only all the flaws on the contest list, but
numerous "extra credit" flaws not on the list.

Needless to say, the maintenance chief received a major "wirebrushing"
as a result.

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

It also sounds like a club that had a "spot the maintenance flaws"
contest one day, several years ago. They rigged a Cessna 152 with about
20 deliberate maintenance flaws and conducted a test for their members
to spot the flaws on a preflight.

hey, that's actually a great idea, though one should be *really*
careful in making sure all the flaws introduced for the contest are
removed at the end of the day :-)

Another way to learn more about preflight check: the mechanics
who does the maintenance of our CAP aircraft gave us a walk around
of said aircraft one evening, what he looks for when he -- a
mechanics -- does a preflight, etc. that was also most educational.

Too bad that the only interaction most pilots -- I am talking renters
here, I presume that owners would be more involved -- have with the
nice folks who maintain our aircraft is via the squawk list...

--Sylvain