We can all agree -- THIS is a great aviation video...

"Flyingmonk" wrote in message
ups.com...

I guess when you're making a movie, violation of the FAA and
USCG laws are OK?

How is it a violation?

-c

§ 91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation.
No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless
manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

(b) Aircraft operations other than for the purpose of air
navigation. No person may operate an aircraft, other than
for the purpose of air navigation, on any part of the
surface of an airport used by aircraft for air commerce
(including areas used by those aircraft for receiving or
discharging persons or cargo), in a careless or reckless
manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.



§ 91.115 Right-of-way rules: Water operations.
(a) General. Each person operating an aircraft on the water
shall, insofar as possible, keep clear of all vessels and
avoid impeding their navigation, and shall give way to any
vessel or other aircraft that is given the right-of-way by
any rule of this section.

(b) Crossing. When aircraft, or an aircraft and a vessel,
are on crossing courses, the aircraft or vessel to the
other's right has the right-of-way.

(c) Approaching head-on. When aircraft, or an aircraft and a
vessel, are approaching head-on, or nearly so, each shall
alter its course to the right to keep well clear.

(d) Overtaking. Each aircraft or vessel that is being
overtaken has the right-of-way, and the one overtaking shall
alter course to keep well clear.

(e) Special circumstances. When aircraft, or an aircraft and
a vessel, approach so as to involve risk of collision, each
aircraft or vessel shall proceed with careful regard to
existing circumstances, including the limitations of the
respective craft.



§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may
operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails,
an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or
property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city,
town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of
persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest
obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the
aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet
above the surface, except over open water or sparsely
populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be
operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel,
vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than
the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this
section if the operation is conducted without hazard to
persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person
operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or
altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the
Administrator.



Note that just because you are taking off, you still must
comply with the regulations. Read this again...

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet
above the surface, except over open water or sparsely
populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be
operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel,
vehicle, or structure.






--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P


"gatt" wrote in message
...
|
| "Flyingmonk" wrote in message
|
ups.com...
|
| I guess when you're making a movie, violation of the
FAA and
| USCG laws are OK?
|
| How is it a violation?
|
| -c
|
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:GTgrg.62820$ZW3.17380@dukeread04...
"gatt" wrote in message
...
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:L5drg.62804$ZW3.40846@dukeread04...
I guess when you're making a movie, violation of the FAA and
USCG laws are OK?

How is it a violation?

§ 91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation.
No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless
manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

Even assuming that the scene was filmed without special effects, a
meticulously planned and executed stunt--carefully coordinated with the
stunt performers in the boat--would not have endangered anyone. (Since there
are no clear rules as to what counts as reckless, the FAA could conceivably
try to invoke 91.13a anyway; but that's true regarding *any* flight, and in
any case they apparently haven't done so.)

(b) Aircraft operations other than for the purpose of air
navigation. No person may operate an aircraft, other than
for the purpose of air navigation, on any part of the
surface of an airport used by aircraft for air commerce
(including areas used by those aircraft for receiving or
discharging persons or cargo), in a careless or reckless
manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

No airport surface was involved.

§ 91.115 Right-of-way rules: Water operations.
(a) General. Each person operating an aircraft on the water
shall, insofar as possible, keep clear of all vessels and
avoid impeding their navigation, and shall give way to any
vessel or other aircraft that is given the right-of-way by
any rule of this section.

The aircraft kept clear, and it had right of way according to 91.115b (the
plane was to the boat's right).

§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may
operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

The aircraft was taking off, so the altitudes in 91.119 don't apply.

Note that just because you are taking off, you still must
comply with the regulations. Read this again...

[91.119](c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet
above the surface, except over open water or sparsely
populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be
operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel,
vehicle, or structure.

Huh? According to the beginning of 91.119, parts a, b, and c *do not apply*
during takeoff or landing. If they did apply, then it would be illegal for
you to land on a runway whenever another plane is holding short less than
500' from your flight path!

--Gary

key word, necessary... or was the take-off necessary.



"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
. ..
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:GTgrg.62820$ZW3.17380@dukeread04...
| "gatt" wrote in message
| ...
| "Jim Macklin"
wrote in message
| news:L5drg.62804$ZW3.40846@dukeread04...
| I guess when you're making a movie, violation of the
FAA and
| USCG laws are OK?
|
| How is it a violation?
|
| § 91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
| (a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air
navigation.
| No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or
reckless
| manner so as to endanger the life or property of
another.
|
| Even assuming that the scene was filmed without special
effects, a
| meticulously planned and executed stunt--carefully
coordinated with the
| stunt performers in the boat--would not have endangered
anyone. (Since there
| are no clear rules as to what counts as reckless, the FAA
could conceivably
| try to invoke 91.13a anyway; but that's true regarding
*any* flight, and in
| any case they apparently haven't done so.)
|
| (b) Aircraft operations other than for the purpose of
air
| navigation. No person may operate an aircraft, other
than
| for the purpose of air navigation, on any part of the
| surface of an airport used by aircraft for air commerce
| (including areas used by those aircraft for receiving or
| discharging persons or cargo), in a careless or reckless
| manner so as to endanger the life or property of
another.
|
| No airport surface was involved.
|
| § 91.115 Right-of-way rules: Water operations.
| (a) General. Each person operating an aircraft on the
water
| shall, insofar as possible, keep clear of all vessels
and
| avoid impeding their navigation, and shall give way to
any
| vessel or other aircraft that is given the right-of-way
by
| any rule of this section.
|
| The aircraft kept clear, and it had right of way according
to 91.115b (the
| plane was to the boat's right).
|
| § 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
| Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person
may
| operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
|
| The aircraft was taking off, so the altitudes in 91.119
don't apply.
|
| Note that just because you are taking off, you still
must
| comply with the regulations. Read this again...
|
| [91.119](c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude
of 500 feet
| above the surface, except over open water or sparsely
| populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be
| operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel,
| vehicle, or structure.
|
| Huh? According to the beginning of 91.119, parts a, b, and
c *do not apply*
| during takeoff or landing. If they did apply, then it
would be illegal for
| you to land on a runway whenever another plane is holding
short less than
| 500' from your flight path!
|
| --Gary
|
|

key word, necessary... or was the take-off necessary.

Takeoffs are optional. Landings are mandatory.

Jokes aside, the key word "necessary" does not require that the takeoff
be necessary, but that once the takeoff is happening, the altitudes and
such be necessary.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:Bmirg.62828$ZW3.25169@dukeread04...
Note that just because you are taking off, you still must
comply with the regulations.

Huh? According to the beginning of 91.119, parts a, b, and c *do not
apply*
during takeoff or landing. If they did apply, then it would be illegal
for
you to land on a runway whenever another plane is holding short less than
500' from your flight path!

key word, necessary... or was the take-off necessary.

No, that's not a sensible parsing of the qualifier "Except when necessary
for takeoff or landing".

A takeoff is virtually never necessary. So if 91.119 meant what you think it
does, then you'd be forbidden to take off from a runway if your flight path
would bring you within 500' of another aircraft that's on the ground near
the runway (on a parallel taxiway, for example). Is that really the rule you
follow when you fly?

--Gary

In the case in question, there was a fishing boat, with two
people and the PBY did in fact take-off directly toward the
boat. I understand that this was a staged movie and it is
possible that they did get a waiver [it is also possible
they didn't]. But the video clearly shows the boat rocking
on the bow wave, which does indicate that this was an actual
take-off toward the boat.

THAT operation is illegal, unsafe and unnecessary. In
crowed harbor, there will often be boat traffic, some being
canoes, small motor boats and most will be operated by
untrained "captains."

Don't confuse normal airport traffic near a runway with boat
traffic on a lake or harbor.On a lake, a take-off or landing
may come closer than 500 feet to a boat, but it should NEVER
be aimed at that boat.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
. ..
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:Bmirg.62828$ZW3.25169@dukeread04...
| Note that just because you are taking off, you still
must
| comply with the regulations.
|
| Huh? According to the beginning of 91.119, parts a, b,
and c *do not
| apply*
| during takeoff or landing. If they did apply, then it
would be illegal
| for
| you to land on a runway whenever another plane is
holding short less than
| 500' from your flight path!
|
| key word, necessary... or was the take-off necessary.
|
| No, that's not a sensible parsing of the qualifier "Except
when necessary
| for takeoff or landing".
|
| A takeoff is virtually never necessary. So if 91.119 meant
what you think it
| does, then you'd be forbidden to take off from a runway if
your flight path
| would bring you within 500' of another aircraft that's on
the ground near
| the runway (on a parallel taxiway, for example). Is that
really the rule you
| follow when you fly?
|
| --Gary
|
|

THAT operation is illegal, unsafe and unnecessary.

If it's the same takeoff I'm thinking of, it was most definately
necessary. How else would it be filmed for the movie?

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:l8trg.62919$ZW3.30020@dukeread04...
Don't confuse normal airport traffic near a runway with boat
traffic on a lake or harbor. On a lake, a take-off or landing
may come closer than 500 feet to a boat, but it should NEVER
be aimed at that boat.

Certainly not without the boat occupants' competent cooperation; that would
be reckless. But in this case (assuming the scene was even real), the stunt
performers in the boat *were* cooperating, and presumably had the expertise
to do so safely.

Your assertion that 91.119 prohibits the takeoff can't be correct, because
otherwise 91.119 would also forbid you to take off or land whenever doing so
would bring you within 500' of a person or vehicle. There's nothing in the
wording of 91.119 that addresses whether or not you are "aimed at" the
object you come close to.

--Gary

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
. ..
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:Bmirg.62828$ZW3.25169@dukeread04...
| Note that just because you are taking off, you still
must
| comply with the regulations.
|
| Huh? According to the beginning of 91.119, parts a, b,
and c *do not
| apply*
| during takeoff or landing. If they did apply, then it
would be illegal
| for
| you to land on a runway whenever another plane is
holding short less than
| 500' from your flight path!
|
| key word, necessary... or was the take-off necessary.
|
| No, that's not a sensible parsing of the qualifier "Except
when necessary
| for takeoff or landing".
|
| A takeoff is virtually never necessary. So if 91.119 meant
what you think it
| does, then you'd be forbidden to take off from a runway if
your flight path
| would bring you within 500' of another aircraft that's on
the ground near
| the runway (on a parallel taxiway, for example). Is that
really the rule you
| follow when you fly?
|
| --Gary
|
|