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"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:Bmirg.62828$ZW3.25169@dukeread04... Note that just because you are taking off, you still must comply with the regulations. Huh? According to the beginning of 91.119, parts a, b, and c *do not apply* during takeoff or landing. If they did apply, then it would be illegal for you to land on a runway whenever another plane is holding short less than 500' from your flight path! key word, necessary... or was the take-off necessary. No, that's not a sensible parsing of the qualifier "Except when necessary for takeoff or landing". A takeoff is virtually never necessary. So if 91.119 meant what you think it does, then you'd be forbidden to take off from a runway if your flight path would bring you within 500' of another aircraft that's on the ground near the runway (on a parallel taxiway, for example). Is that really the rule you follow when you fly? --Gary |
#2
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In the case in question, there was a fishing boat, with two
people and the PBY did in fact take-off directly toward the boat. I understand that this was a staged movie and it is possible that they did get a waiver [it is also possible they didn't]. But the video clearly shows the boat rocking on the bow wave, which does indicate that this was an actual take-off toward the boat. THAT operation is illegal, unsafe and unnecessary. In crowed harbor, there will often be boat traffic, some being canoes, small motor boats and most will be operated by untrained "captains." Don't confuse normal airport traffic near a runway with boat traffic on a lake or harbor.On a lake, a take-off or landing may come closer than 500 feet to a boat, but it should NEVER be aimed at that boat. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P "Gary Drescher" wrote in message . .. | "Jim Macklin" wrote in message | news:Bmirg.62828$ZW3.25169@dukeread04... | Note that just because you are taking off, you still must | comply with the regulations. | | Huh? According to the beginning of 91.119, parts a, b, and c *do not | apply* | during takeoff or landing. If they did apply, then it would be illegal | for | you to land on a runway whenever another plane is holding short less than | 500' from your flight path! | | key word, necessary... or was the take-off necessary. | | No, that's not a sensible parsing of the qualifier "Except when necessary | for takeoff or landing". | | A takeoff is virtually never necessary. So if 91.119 meant what you think it | does, then you'd be forbidden to take off from a runway if your flight path | would bring you within 500' of another aircraft that's on the ground near | the runway (on a parallel taxiway, for example). Is that really the rule you | follow when you fly? | | --Gary | | |
#3
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THAT operation is illegal, unsafe and unnecessary.
If it's the same takeoff I'm thinking of, it was most definately necessary. How else would it be filmed for the movie? Jose -- The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#4
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Filming a movie is not necessary, it is optional. There may
even be alternative ways to film the scene. Those are things that the FAA will consider before issuing a waiver. It is possible that the scene was filmed in Mexico or some other country, but that might make it legal, but it is still unsafe. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P land and seaplane rated "Jose" wrote in message . net... | THAT operation is illegal, unsafe and unnecessary. | | If it's the same takeoff I'm thinking of, it was most definately | necessary. How else would it be filmed for the movie? | | Jose | -- | The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music. | for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#5
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Filming a movie is not necessary, it is optional. There may
even be alternative ways to film the scene. Those are things that the FAA will consider before issuing a waiver. Flying is not necessary either. It is possible that the scene was filmed in Mexico or some other country, but that might make it legal, but it is still unsafe. I do not agree that it is unsafe, except inasmuch as breathing causes death. That's a very long lens on the camera; this compresses perspective. Just like aerobatics demonstrations (which are unnecessary), the visual tricks fool the viewer into thinking things are a lot closer than they are. Jose -- The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#6
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Note the time delay is just a few seconds as the airplane
passes overhead and the wake rocks the boat, that was not a telephoto lens but a real close pass. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P "Jose" wrote in message .com... | Filming a movie is not necessary, it is optional. There may | even be alternative ways to film the scene. Those are | things that the FAA will consider before issuing a waiver. | | Flying is not necessary either. | | It is possible that the scene was filmed in Mexico or some | other country, but that might make it legal, but it is still | unsafe. | | I do not agree that it is unsafe, except inasmuch as breathing causes | death. That's a very long lens on the camera; this compresses | perspective. Just like aerobatics demonstrations (which are | unnecessary), the visual tricks fool the viewer into thinking things are | a lot closer than they are. | | Jose | -- | The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music. | for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#7
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In article kXwrg.62937$ZW3.47903@dukeread04,
"Jim Macklin" wrote: Note the time delay is just a few seconds as the airplane passes overhead and the wake rocks the boat, that was not a telephoto lens but a real close pass. And how do you know there was not some special effects contraption out of sight behind the rowboat to generate those waves? Remember... it's only a movie! |
#8
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In article kXwrg.62937$ZW3.47903@dukeread04,
"Jim Macklin" wrote: Note the time delay is just a few seconds as the airplane passes overhead and the wake rocks the boat, that was not a telephoto lens but a real close pass. I watched the scene several times last night. Note that the camera pans down to see the boat "rocked" but by what? The bow wave doesn't look close to the boat and it seems hard to figure out the distant between the plane and the boat. Doesn't a long lens put the background out of focus? (or did I get that backwards?) -- Bob Noel Looking for a sig the lawyers will hate |
#9
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Note the time delay is just a few seconds as the airplane
passes overhead and the wake rocks the boat, that was not a telephoto lens but a real close pass. It was most definately a telephoto lens. I'm not convinced that the wave that rocks the boat is the bow wave. We could figure all this out - what kind of plane was it, what is its dimensions? (hull width, engine spacing, wingspan). What is its typical approach speed? It was also a close pass, but nowhere near as close as it looks. That's how movies work. And remember, right at the end of a regular short runway is stuff you don't want to hit too, but we take off of short runways all the time. It would be reckless for you and I and a few friends to go and do this. However, Hollywood stunt people are well trained in these kinds of things, they know, understand, and accept the risks (just like aerobatics pilots do things that would be reckless for you or I to do alone). I have no problem with the flying in the shot. Jose -- The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#10
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![]() "Jim Macklin" wrote in message news:l8trg.62919$ZW3.30020@dukeread04... Don't confuse normal airport traffic near a runway with boat traffic on a lake or harbor. On a lake, a take-off or landing may come closer than 500 feet to a boat, but it should NEVER be aimed at that boat. Certainly not without the boat occupants' competent cooperation; that would be reckless. But in this case (assuming the scene was even real), the stunt performers in the boat *were* cooperating, and presumably had the expertise to do so safely. Your assertion that 91.119 prohibits the takeoff can't be correct, because otherwise 91.119 would also forbid you to take off or land whenever doing so would bring you within 500' of a person or vehicle. There's nothing in the wording of 91.119 that addresses whether or not you are "aimed at" the object you come close to. --Gary "Gary Drescher" wrote in message . .. | "Jim Macklin" wrote in message | news:Bmirg.62828$ZW3.25169@dukeread04... | Note that just because you are taking off, you still must | comply with the regulations. | | Huh? According to the beginning of 91.119, parts a, b, and c *do not | apply* | during takeoff or landing. If they did apply, then it would be illegal | for | you to land on a runway whenever another plane is holding short less than | 500' from your flight path! | | key word, necessary... or was the take-off necessary. | | No, that's not a sensible parsing of the qualifier "Except when necessary | for takeoff or landing". | | A takeoff is virtually never necessary. So if 91.119 meant what you think it | does, then you'd be forbidden to take off from a runway if your flight path | would bring you within 500' of another aircraft that's on the ground near | the runway (on a parallel taxiway, for example). Is that really the rule you | follow when you fly? | | --Gary | | |
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