McCain in '08

"Jessica Rhodes" wrote in message
...

Unless they risked their ass as McCain did and served as a POW
themselves,
his political opponents' opinion isn't worth cold **** in an old boot.

I admire Sen McCain's service in the military and the sacrifices he
endured several decades ago,

I don't for a second admire that he was a POW. It wasn't his choice. He
didn't want to be one. Having been raised by a POW and seen the long-term
effects of what subhumans did to him, there's nothing about his experience
to admire. One can only respect them and remember to give thanks. I would
have been more clear had I said "his political opponents' opinion OF HIS
MILITARY SERVICE isn't worth..." which is what I meant. Criticising his
political policies or career is of course fair, but when you start picking
on a POW for being a POW, you are patently unworthy to be a leader of
Americans.

To say that someone can not disagree with a political position, opinion,
or a politician without insulting one's former service as a soldier,
sailor, or airman is fundamentally ridiculous.

I absolutely agree that once a person becomes a politician they're fair game
for public opinion, BUT, in no way does that give another politician an
excuse to discredit or call into question his military record, whether it's
McCain, Murtha, Bush Sr. or anybody else the United States of America saw
fit to decorate.

Here's the bottom line. McCain was a POW. He gave many years of his life
in service of his country. To attempt to diminish or devalue that for
political leverage is absolutely beneath contempt. That's the way it is.
Semper Fi.

-c

("gatt" wrote)
I don't for a second admire that he was a POW. It wasn't his choice. He
didn't want to be one. Having been raised by a POW and seen the long-term
effects of what subhumans did to him, there's nothing about his experience
to admire. One can only respect them and remember to give thanks.


If you would, come back at this again, maybe even from head on, but do,
please, take another swing at this. It's an interesting thought, and
perspective.

Just a reader trying to sort out: the experience, choice, the man, give
thanks, respect, and admire.


Montblack

"Montblack" wrote in message
...
I don't for a second admire that he was a POW. It wasn't his choice. He
didn't want to be one. Having been raised by a POW and seen the
long-term effects of what subhumans did to him, there's nothing about
his experience to admire. One can only respect them and remember to
give thanks.

If you would, come back at this again, maybe even from head on, but do,
please, take another swing at this. It's an interesting thought, and
perspective.

I was raised by a former POW who was shot down and then tortured by the
Gestapo because his dogtags were missing and he "looked German"; imprisoned
at Stalag XVII-B and later left to die at KZ Mauthausen. I admire him for
his courage, having served as an aerial gunner. I certainly don't admire
his experience as a POW; he would have thought such a thing crazy.

Having said that, the lessons one learns from the experience of such a
parent are both difficult to articulate and impossible to forget.

Just a reader trying to sort out: the experience, choice, the man, give
thanks, respect, and admire.

I honor the integrity and strength of character that made him who he was in
spite of the happened to him, but I cannot "admire" his experience because I
would never want to see men, women and children stripped naked and machine
gunned into mass graves or shredded alive by SS dogs, nor would I want to
see my name on the wall at Andersonville. Whatever strength it might bring
to my character simply wouldn't be worth it.

Hope that makes more sense. If he were to have entered the political arena,
we might have disagreed bitterly on some issues, but I would never have
attempted to devalue his wartime courage or service to this country. This is
what I perceive to be happening to decorated veterans by politicians for
political purposes.

-c

I agree with Gatt, except that Kerry HIMSELF opened up his war record for
inspection when he ran a "I'm not W, and I am a Vietnam war veteran"
campaign. Remember the DNC?: "John Kerry: reporting for duty" was his
opening line.

He ran as a self-proclaimed war hero, even though he later admitted to
being a war criminal (look up his words on so called "Kill-zones"), and
then became an active Vietnam war protestor. By running this type of
campaign, he ****ed off many Vietnam vets.

Having never served (but coming from a military family that suffered many
casualties in WWII), I would never presume to judge what a man does in
combat. But, Kerry brought it on himself.

You never hear McCain bragging about being a war-hero. If anything, he is
reluctant to discuss it unlike John Kerry, "reporting for duty."

"Skylune" wrote in message
I agree with Gatt, except that Kerry HIMSELF opened up his war record for
inspection when he ran a "I'm not W, and I am a Vietnam war veteran"
campaign. Remember the DNC?: "John Kerry: reporting for duty" was his
opening line.

In that case I'd say it's fair so long as the interpretation of those
records is truthful by all parties, which is to say, the people claiming
he's a hero and the people claiming he's a fraud. If you make the claim, it
should be subject to review and verification.

You never hear McCain bragging about being a war-hero.

It frequently takes Ex-POWs three or four decades to begin talking much
about their experience at all; many never do. In my experience with old
warriors I've come to the opinion that the harder they struggled, the less
inclined they are to discuss it.

-c

It frequently takes Ex-POWs three or four decades to begin talking much
about their experience at all; many never do. In my experience with old
warriors I've come to the opinion that the harder they struggled, the
less

inclined they are to discuss it.

-c



Yes, or never. My dad was a vet, and briefly a POW in WWII. He died a
few years ago, and only once or twice did he ever discuss his war
experiences with me. He would not watch war films which he said glorified
combat and did not capture the horror. The only stories I heard were from
my mom, who would recall what little he told her.

When "Saving Private Ryan" came out a few years back, I got him to go see
it with me. He left within the first three minutes and said something to
the effect that there was no good reason to watch this film.

My guess is that McCain will not want to discuss his POW experiences ever.
If he starts to use them for political advantage (ala Kerry), I would
certainly not support the man.

Take care, Skylune out.

"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...

Yes, or never. My dad was a vet, and briefly a POW in WWII. He died a
few years ago, and only once or twice did he ever discuss his war
experiences with me. He would not watch war films which he said glorified
combat and did not capture the horror. The only stories I heard were from
my mom, who would recall what little he told her.

That's unfortunately too common. I've spoken with vets of my grandfather's
crew. Two loved telling the stories, possibly embellished a bit. The
copilot became angry when I suggested the notion that B-17s were ever NOT
olive drab, (the surviving '96th plane is bare aluminum), and the pilot won
the DFC, served in the Berlin Airlift, flew in Korea and Vietnam and after
he died, when I spoke to his daughter, I discovered he'd told me more about
his service on the phone one time while waiting for my grandfather to come
to the phone than he had ever told anybody in his family.

Similarly, I found out recently that my uncle is a retired Sgt. Major and he
won't even discuss which units he was in. Bronze stars from different wars,
PHs, we know he was captured by the Germans and escaped twice, and his wife
says he has two old footlockers filled with photos he took in Anzio or
somewhere, but his adult children have never seen them.

Sad, but, I figure they've earned that right if they choose to bury all of
it.

-c

gatt wrote:

"Skylune" wrote in message
I agree with Gatt, except that Kerry HIMSELF opened up his war record for
inspection when he ran a "I'm not W, and I am a Vietnam war veteran"
campaign. Remember the DNC?: "John Kerry: reporting for duty" was his
opening line.

In that case I'd say it's fair so long as the interpretation of those
records is truthful by all parties, which is to say, the people claiming
he's a hero and the people claiming he's a fraud. If you make the claim, it
should be subject to review and verification.

Kerry realized that he didn't have an anthills' worth of accomplishments in 20
years of being a US Senator plus being a state lieutenant governor etc. The
only thing he could come up with was to play up his four (4) months in Vietnam.

"Owen Hiller" wrote in message
...

Kerry realized that he didn't have an anthills' worth of accomplishments
in 20
years of being a US Senator plus being a state lieutenant governor etc.
The
only thing he could come up with was to play up his four (4) months in
Vietnam.

I don't claim to know what motivated Kerry to decide to do it 'cause I
wasn't in his campaign headquarters, either.

-c

gatt wrote:

"Jessica Rhodes" wrote in message
...

Unless they risked their ass as McCain did and served as a POW
themselves,
his political opponents' opinion isn't worth cold **** in an old boot.

I admire Sen McCain's service in the military and the sacrifices he
endured several decades ago,

I don't for a second admire that he was a POW. It wasn't his choice. He
didn't want to be one. Having been raised by a POW and seen the long-term
effects of what subhumans did to him, there's nothing about his experience
to admire. One can only respect them and remember to give thanks. I would
have been more clear had I said "his political opponents' opinion OF HIS
MILITARY SERVICE isn't worth..." which is what I meant. Criticising his
political policies or career is of course fair, but when you start picking
on a POW for being a POW, you are patently unworthy to be a leader of
Americans.

To say that someone can not disagree with a political position, opinion,
or a politician without insulting one's former service as a soldier,
sailor, or airman is fundamentally ridiculous.

I absolutely agree that once a person becomes a politician they're fair game
for public opinion, BUT, in no way does that give another politician an
excuse to discredit or call into question his military record, whether it's
McCain, Murtha, Bush Sr. or anybody else the United States of America saw
fit to decorate.

Here's the bottom line. McCain was a POW. He gave many years of his life
in service of his country. To attempt to diminish or devalue that for
political leverage is absolutely beneath contempt. That's the way it is.
Semper Fi.

To attempt to use one's past service and sacrifices for today's political
leverage does great disservice to EVERYONE who has had sacrifice.