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On 13 Jul 2006 13:33:14 -0700, "Ed Rasimus"
wrote in .com:: Dave Stadt wrote: Parker was guilty of murder the same as if he held a gun the head of the 172 pilot and pulled the trigger. He broke nearly every rule in the book and got away with murder. The US military is the big loser as it is hard to respect an organization that condones such actions and does nothing to punish the guilty. You might want to research the elements of "murder" before conducting much more slander. In the state of Florida, the crime of Third Degree Murder is what would be called Manslaughter in other jurisdictions. You might also want to spend some time in a single-seat, single-engine aircraft making decisions at the speed required by the job on a daily basis. If you ever descend to descend into congested terminal airspace at ~500 knots without the required ATC clearance, you have taken responsibility for the consequences of that violation of regulations, and should suffer the consequences of your imprudent act. Unfortunately, the USAF found justice would be served with a verbal reprimand, no loss of pay or rank, nor incarceration nor restitution to the widow and family, nor for the destroyed $30,000,000.00 F-15. That slap on the wrist is so disproportionate to the carnage and destruction Parker caused, as to outrageously offend any thinking person's sense of justice. Someone died and that is very, repeat very, unfortunate. But, with the proliferation of restrictions on airspace and the continual restrictions on military training it is increasingly more difficult to avoid offending some petty bureaucrat or noise sensitive home-owner while conducting training. I hope I'm not hearing you say the military has it rough, so expect to see the incompetence of cowboy fighter pilots go unpunished even when civilian fatalities are involved. No one needs to die and you can take to the bank that no one in the military ever intends to participate in a mid-air. What would you expect the outcome to be of entering congested terminal airspace at ~500 knots without talking to Air Traffic Control? If you've read all of the testimony and understand all of the factors involved, you are entitled to an opinion, but keep in mind that opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they all stink. Not nearly as much as the injustice perpetrated by Gen. Rosa in finding a verbal reprimand appropriate punishment for Parker's infamous acts. |
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Ed Rasimus wrote:
You might want to research the elements of "murder" before conducting much more slander. Larry Dighera wrote: In the state of Florida, the crime of Third Degree Murder is what would be called Manslaughter in other jurisdictions. You might also want to spend some time in a single-seat, single-engine aircraft making decisions at the speed required by the job on a daily basis. If you ever (int?)end to descend into congested terminal airspace at ~500 knots without the required ATC clearance, you have taken responsibility for the consequences of that violation of regulations, and should suffer the consequences of your imprudent act. Just for the hell of it, do you know if he knew that he was entering terminal airspace? I'm not trying to throw out red herrings, I honestly don't recall, but I think not. If my edit of your post (descend to -- intend to) is not what you meant to say, my apologies! Jeff Saying "Guns kill people" is like saying "Spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat." |
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Jeff Crowell wrote:
Jeff Saying "Guns kill people" is like saying "Spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat." Guns don't kill people, husbands who come home early kill people. -- Cheers Dave Kearton |
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![]() Dave Kearton wrote: Jeff Crowell wrote: Jeff Saying "Guns kill people" is like saying "Spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat." Guns don't kill people, husbands who come home early kill people. Geez, Dave - if you know something about his schedule that I don't know, just TELL me! yfG |
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On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:10:07 -0600, "Jeff Crowell"
Jcrow9DOTcableone.net wrote in :: Just for the hell of it, do you know if he knew that he was entering terminal airspace? In this case, USAF Brigadier General ROBIN E. SCOTT, President of the USAF accident investigation Board (not exactly an impartial observer), found that Flight Lead Parker's decision to intentionally descend into congested Class B terminal airspace at over 400 knots without the required ATC clearance not to constitute "a deliberate disregard for the safety of others." In fact, his report intimates that the cause of Parker's misbehavior was a loss of situational awareness, which lead to the death of Jacques Olivier, was a malfunction of the navigation electronics on board Parker's southbound F-16, when in fact, the documented equipment errors actually placed Parker 10 NM farther north from the center of the Tampa Class B airspace than he believed he was at the time. That is to say, Parker would have been inside Tampa Class B airspace without the required ATC clearance for many more miles had he actually descended at the position he believed he was located instead of the position the malfunctioning/miss-operated navigational.equipment placed him. The facts presented in the Air Force accident report support my contention that Parker intentionally, willfully, deliberately and recklessly descended into a very congested terminal area in excess of 400 knots and without being in communication with the authority responsible for separating aircraft in that airspace, and without regard for the life and safety of the civilians operating there nor those residing under his flight path. Assuming the Air Force accident report is 100% factual, it indicates that Parker, Ninja Flight Lead, began his descent into Tampa Class B airspace at a point he believed at the time was ~15 miles inside its boundary. Any airman, even an illustrious Air Force pilot, knows that the dimensions of Class B areas are roughly a 30 NM radius from the central airport (KTPA in this case). Parker was aware he was above Tampa Class B airspace when he recklessly decided to descend through it, or he is a careless and incompetent pilot (or both). The errors in the systems did not cause this mishap. According to the Air Force accident report, he INS system mysteriously developed a ~10 NM southerly steering error spontaneously, subsequent to the first sortie. This had the effect of indicating that the aircraft's position was ~10 NM south of its true position. Parker failed to do the _required_ position check which would have detected this error. Parker also erroneously input a slew error, and failed to make the _required_ check when he engaged that navigation equipment. The results of that error placed him 5 NM west of his indicated position. Neither of the errors, electronic nor Parker's erroneous input, were adequate in explaining why a highly trained Air Force pilot chose to descend into Tampa Class B airspace at what Parker's navigation equipment indicated was 15 miles inside the Class B boundary at the time. The malfunctioning/misdialed navigational errors actually assisted Parker's flight in being closer to the edge of the Class B area when he chose to descend (at 140 knots in excess of his aircraft's minimum safe speed in violation of FAR 19.117(d)) without a clearance into the congested Class B terminal area. So the navigational system errors lessened the time Parker's flight posed a threat to Class B air traffic. THE NAVIGATIONAL ERRORS DO NOT IN ANY WAY EXCUSE PARKER FOR HIS RECKLESS ACTIONS. In fact the opposite is true. There is no doubt in my mind that Parker's decision to descend into the Tampa Class B area without the required ATC clearance was deliberate and intentional; He had to be aware that he wasn't clear of the class bravo airspace. I believe Parker's decision to recklessly descend without a clearance was a result of the situation created by all the careless errors he made. Due to Parker's canceling IFR and failure to contact Tampa Approach Control because he input the wrong frequency in his radio, he either had to descend without a clearance, or fly past the MTR entry point. He thought he was ~10 NM closer to the MTR entry point then he actually was at the time. Parker just chose to chance what he thought would be only a few moments of violating FARs, and indulged in unprofessional, unsafe operation, rather than pausing to safely regain control of the rapidly determining situation. Parker made more than a _few_ careless mistakes and/or reckless decisions. Some of them were indeed minor, but others were unforgivable and deadly. The Air Force accident report mentions these: 1. Lieutenant Colonel Parker did not specifically brief Class B and Class C airspace restrictions in the Tampa area during the flight briefing. Air Force directives _require_ the flight lead to brief applicable airspace restrictions. 2. Canceled IFR with Miami Center. 3. Declined flight following service. 4. Erroneously thought he was given frequency 362.35 by Miami Center and attempted to contact Tampa Approach Control there. 5. Failed to obtain ATC clearance from Tampa Approach for entry into the Tampa Class B airspace. 6. Failed to establish two-way radio communications with Tampa Approach Control prior to entering Sarasota Class C airspace. 7. Failed to adequately deconflict flight path (Air Force training manuals emphasize that flight path deconfliction is a critical task, one that can never be ignored without catastrophic consequences.) 8. Lost situational awareness. 9. Failed to recognize a significant 9 to 11 nautical mile position error in his aircraft's Inertial Navigation System. 10. Did not crosscheck the INS accuracy with other systems. 11. Parker failed to notice the degradation in INS system accuracy. The system showed a navigational system accuracy of 'medium', which eventually degraded to 'low' prior to the collision. 12. Unintentional cursor slew bias input by the pilot. A crosscheck of system indications is _required_ so that unintentional slews are recognized and zeroed out. Parker didn't bother to perform the _required_ crosscheck. 12. Failed to recognize a cursor slew bias in his ground attack steering. 14. Mis-prioritization of tasks. 15. Parker had a normal post-mishap physical examination on 24 November 2000, 8-days after his flight killed Jacques Olivier! I believe the high-speed of Parker's flight reduced the time the pilots had to detect an aircraft on a collision course, and prevented the late Cessna 172 pilot, Jacques Olivier, from maneuvering his aircraft out of the path of the F-16s in time to avoid the collision (which scattered parts of his still warm remains over 4 acres surrounding the 2nd hole of busy Rosedale Golf and Country Club) that afternoon. Olivier's aircraft was in a right turn at the time of the 480 knot (~550 mph) impact, so he had seen the rogue F-16 before it shattered his light aircraft (and virtually caused his body to explode), but because of its excessive speed, he lacked sufficient time to get out of its way. High speed leaves little time for human responses. (I direct your attention to the table in the article included below.) How long does a full windscreen traffic scan take? I believe that the FAA or NTSB standard requires/suggests 15 seconds to scan left to right (but this assumes only one person scanning the whole field of view). How long does it take you to spot an F-16 against low-level ground clutter at 12'O clock and one mile? How frequently do you fail to see traffic called by ATC? We're both pilots. You know what I'm talking about. It is estimated that the average person can detect an object on a collision course (stationary in the field of view rather than moving) when it occupies 12 minutes of arc in the field of view (1/5th of a degree) or (ISTR - badly ![]() range for each m radius of the central mass. Assuming no glare reflection, which can confound any calculation on detection range and probability, statistically, it would take 7.5 seconds to reach 12 O'clock using approved search patterns. (OTOH, if its against low level ground clutter, then its probably not on a collision course with you ![]() [This last sentence may be somewhat true in _level_ flight over _level_ terrain with meteorologically restricted visibility; it is not pertinent otherwise.] If we generously assume that the head-on frontal-area "central mass" of an F-16 is approximately 2 meters, we find that it should be humanly detectable at a distance of ~1,000 meters, or ~3,250 feet. This is roughly 1/2 of a nautical mile. The table of airspeeds equated to feet-per-second below can be used to compute the time-budget available to pilots for visually _detecting_ conflicting air traffic at that distance. It does not take into consideration lighting, contrast, the time necessary to deduce and make _appropriate_ control inputs, nor the time for the aircraft to actually maneuver out of the path of the conflicting aircraft's path. Time Until Impact Closing-speed Feet Per Second At 3,250 Foot Distance ------------- --------------- ---------------------- 250 knots 417 feet per second 7.8 seconds 300 knots 500 feet per second 6.5 seconds 350 knots 583 feet per second 5.6 seconds 400 knots 667 feet per second 4.9 seconds 480 knots 800 feet per second 4.1 seconds From this table it is evident that the pilot of a military aircraft traveling at a 400 knot closing-speed has _inadequate_ time to "see-and-avoid". Using Kerryn Offord's figures, the pilot would have the impossible task of repeatedly, spending 15 seconds, 8 to 12 times a minute, scanning the entire windscreen during that portion of the flight conducted below 18,000 feet. Clearly, there is only time for 4, not 8 to 12, full scans in a minute. So it is not possible to rely solely on visual detection of conflicting air traffic to prevent midair collisions at high-speed. Even if the scan for conflicting air traffic is divided among 4 pilots, there is no time left to do anything else such as visual navigation, tuning radios, ... These calculations only concern detecting the conflicting air traffic, not avoiding collision with it. So, it is patently evident that some other means of collision avoidance must be _required_ to insure the hazard to air-safety posed by high-speed low-level military operations is mitigated. It is also evident that the FAA IS FAILING TO PROVIDE SAFE SKIES for the public when it permits the military to indulge in this reckless high-speed low-level operation. It is my belief that there came a time when Parker had to descend to reach the MTR start point, or admit to his student that he had lost situational awareness. At that instant, he chose to descend into Class B airspace without the REQUIRED ATC clearance, rather than confess his confusion. This would have been consistent with Parker's failure to perform all the other REQUIRED items/checks he failed to accomplish on the mishap sortie. Can you explain how Parker could possibly NOT have known that Class B airspace lay just below him when he descended into it (clear & 10 miles visibility at the time)? Class B airspace is typically 30 nautical miles in radius around the central airport; that's 60 NM in diameter. This particular Class B abuts the Sarasota Class C to the south. The MTR VR1098 start point is ~1 nm outside the boundaries of these areas just west of Manatee Dam. Given VR1098 extends to the eastsoutheast, it begs the question, "how does a flight enter VR1098 WITHOUT being in contact with ATC, and remain within the governing regulations?" To have been UNAWARE that Class B airspace lay beneath the Ninja flight, Parker would have to have been incapacitated in some way. Another reason Parker may not have known his position relative to the Tampa terminal airspace is mentioned in the Air Force AIB report: "Lieutenant Colonel Parker did not specifically brief Class B and Class C airspace restrictions in the Tampa area during the flight briefing. Air Force directives require the flight lead to brief applicable airspace restrictions." The malfunctioning INS erroneously indicated Parker's position to be ~10 miles north of his true location. This resulted in his southbound flight being ~10 miles FARTHER toward the edge of Tampa International (TPA), the core airport, Class B airspace than indicated by Parker's INS. Thus, the INS error actually contributed to moving the flight toward the (presumably safer) periphery of the congested terminal airspace, just not far enough. So, while the INS error may have contributed to confusing Parker, it does not excuse his actions in any way IMNSHO. If he was disorientated, he should have remained above the terminal area until he regained situational awareness. But, Parker was the instructor on this sortie; did his ego play a part in his decisions? Without evidence to the contrary, I have to attribute his decision to descend NORDO into Tampa Class B airspace (and accelerated to 440 KIAS) to unprofessional arrogance rather than lost situational awareness. His failure to perform the required airspace briefing, and failure to perform the required navigational cross-checks is indicative of a lack of professionalism or incapacitation; the AIB report fails to substantiate the later due to the eight day delay in the medical examination of Parker. So if you were unable to contact the Class B ATC controlling authority, would you descend into 60-mile diameter congested Class B terminal airspace without the required clearance? |
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SNIP all
Is this personal? You've got a hard-on for this guy like a DA six months before the election. R / John |
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![]() "John Carrier" wrote in message . .. SNIP all Is this personal? You've got a hard-on for this guy like a DA six months before the election. R / John Shouldn't that be "erection"? No, I guess not. That would limit the election to Japan. :-) Dudley |
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On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:36:08 -0500, "John Carrier"
wrote in :: Is this personal? To whom are you referring Parker or Rosa? Parker did a lot of irresponsible things, that resulted in the death of a fellow airman. Rosa let him off with a reprimand. If I had killed someone, I would have stood trial, and if convicted, would have been sentenced. There is little question that Parker should have been subject to the same sort of judicial due process. The only conclusion one can draw is, that our military is above the law. We all share the NAS. I would prefer not to end up like Jacques Olivier splattered over four acres of golf course as a result of lax USAF discipline. I know neither men, so my issue with these events not personal, but their actions have sensitized me to the lack of responsibility apparently rampant in the military. And I'm uncomfortable seeing my tax dollars funding the death of a fellow airman, and the injustice perpetrated against us civilians. So now that I've answered your question, perhaps you'll be good enough to answer one for me. Do you feel that justice was done in this case? |
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![]() "Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:36:08 -0500, "John Carrier" wrote in :: Is this personal? To whom are you referring Parker or Rosa? Parker did a lot of irresponsible things, that resulted in the death of a fellow airman. Rosa let him off with a reprimand. If I had killed someone, I would have stood trial, and if convicted, would have been sentenced. There is little question that Parker should have been subject to the same sort of judicial due process. The only conclusion one can draw is, that our military is above the law. We all share the NAS. I would prefer not to end up like Jacques Olivier splattered over four acres of golf course as a result of lax USAF discipline. I know neither men, so my issue with these events not personal, but their actions have sensitized me to the lack of responsibility apparently rampant in the military. And I'm uncomfortable seeing my tax dollars funding the death of a fellow airman, and the injustice perpetrated against us civilians. So now that I've answered your question, perhaps you'll be good enough to answer one for me. Do you feel that justice was done in this case? I haven't a clue. Without access to all the original data (as one might have in an MIR), I wouldn't formulate an opinion. I doubt you've had such access, but you've got your opinion, expressed in voluminous and vehement detail. So be it. R / John |
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