Oshkosh arrivals

Kyle Boatright wrote:


Next, there is the idiot factor. I believe the FAA can address some of
this. For example, the person who flys the approach completely wrong,
doesn't follow the NOTAM, etc. Those folks should get pulled aside after
their hopefully safe arrival, and the FAA should politely make sure they
have their stuff together...
- Show me your copy of the NOTAM.
- Why didn't you follow the procedures?
- etc.

I've never been to OSH, but based on what I've seen at other places the
FAA can't dream of having the manpower available to have a chat with
every pilot that screws up the arrival.

Agree completely. Was listening to the live ATC broadcast, and someone in a
Canadian registered plane calls up and starts talking, also in the wrong
place and completely oblivious. The controller asked him if he had the
arrival notams and where exactly he was, but the guy said he did not have
the information, and was around 5 southwest.

The controller was a model of cool, and went through the normal procedures
to identify the guy and get him sequenced. It's amazing that more crashes
don't actually occur.

Viperdoc wrote:

Agree completely. Was listening to the live ATC broadcast, and someone in a
Canadian registered plane calls up and starts talking, also in the wrong
place and completely oblivious. The controller asked him if he had the
arrival notams and where exactly he was, but the guy said he did not have
the information, and was around 5 southwest.

The controller was a model of cool, and went through the normal procedures
to identify the guy and get him sequenced. It's amazing that more crashes
don't actually occur.


That's BS.. "Sir, turn around and fly at least 100 miles in the opposite
direction. Land. Get the notam. Study it and know it. Then takeoff
and fly the procedure."

Newps wrote:


Viperdoc wrote:

Agree completely. Was listening to the live ATC broadcast, and someone
in a Canadian registered plane calls up and starts talking, also in
the wrong place and completely oblivious. The controller asked him if
he had the arrival notams and where exactly he was, but the guy said
he did not have the information, and was around 5 southwest.

The controller was a model of cool, and went through the normal
procedures to identify the guy and get him sequenced. It's amazing
that more crashes don't actually occur.


That's BS.. "Sir, turn around and fly at least 100 miles in the opposite
direction. Land. Get the notam. Study it and know it. Then takeoff
and fly the procedure."

You have no idea how much I wish controllers at ADS would start doing
that. It's no Oshkosh, but for crying out loud, people, how hard is it
to a)comprehend the requirements for entering class D and b)learn to
read a map and figure out whether we are north or south of the airport?

Emily wrote:


You have no idea how much I wish controllers at ADS would start doing
that. It's no Oshkosh, but for crying out loud, people, how hard is it
to a)comprehend the requirements for entering class D and b)learn to
read a map and figure out whether we are north or south of the airport?

Emily, I fly in/out of KADS often, my club is based there. When not
flying, I'm often monitoring tower. It is very infrequent that I hear a
pilot who has not checked in with approach for sequencing. What exactly
are you describing? Pilots who are sequenced, but not following vectors
to the field, or pilots who are calling ADS tower without checking in
with approach first?

Bruce Riggs wrote:
Emily wrote:

Emily, I fly in/out of KADS often, my club is based there. When not
flying, I'm often monitoring tower. It is very infrequent that I hear a
pilot who has not checked in with approach for sequencing. What exactly
are you describing? Pilots who are sequenced, but not following vectors
to the field, or pilots who are calling ADS tower without checking in
with approach first?

Mostly the second.

Emily wrote:

You have no idea how much I wish controllers at ADS would start doing
that.

The AOPA open house every year is a similar screw up. The only thing
people get right is that there's a temporary tower frequency. They
set up a "Fisk-like" approach control (which does absolutely nothing
unlike the Fisk which peels you out for different runways). Of course
what everybody does is call the approach 30 miles out and stomps all
over the controller so the people actually flying the procedure can't
hear. Then you get to the field and my opinion is that sequencing
would work better without the tower. Anyhow, nobody flies anything
approaching even a normal pattern (let alone keeping it in tight)
nor do they expeditiously exit the runway. I spend a lot of time
at FDK, so I hauled it around in close (because the controller was
also telling the guy behind me to extend), put it down on the numbers
and just as the controller was telling the guy behind me to go around
turned off into the grass. ALL THE GRASS ALONG SIDE OF THE FDK
RUNWAYS IS TAXIABLE (even landable). It's actually maintained in
better shape than that off the OSHKOSH runways (36's verges are a
bit rough).

The AOPA open house every year is a similar screw up. The only thing
people get right is that there's a temporary tower frequency. They
set up a "Fisk-like" approach control (which does absolutely nothing
unlike the Fisk which peels you out for different runways). Of course
what everybody does is call the approach 30 miles out and stomps all
over the controller so the people actually flying the procedure can't
hear. Then you get to the field and my opinion is that sequencing
would work better without the tower. Anyhow, nobody flies anything
approaching even a normal pattern (let alone keeping it in tight)
nor do they expeditiously exit the runway. I spend a lot of time
at FDK, so I hauled it around in close (because the controller was
also telling the guy behind me to extend), put it down on the numbers
and just as the controller was telling the guy behind me to go around
turned off into the grass. ALL THE GRASS ALONG SIDE OF THE FDK
RUNWAYS IS TAXIABLE (even landable). It's actually maintained in
better shape than that off the OSHKOSH runways (36's verges are a
bit rough).

Also the AOPA annual convention. I last attended at KPSP. Followed the notam
for arrival. Got held at Banning for 20mins, allowed to enter valley, then
held north of Desert Hot springs for 45 mins. then vectored south to middle
of Salton Sea to join Conga line. Another 360 for traffic. Time from Banning
to touchdown just over 2 hours. During this time heard numerous a/c call in
just 6-7 miles out and while some turned away others had their rudeness
rewarded with quick slots for landing. Just checked airnav. 100LL $6/gal at
PSP today. I think attendence might be down for the AOPA convention this
year.

Cheers
Howard
C182 (Avgas cost $66/hr and rising)

I agree with you- if I had been the controller I would have been sorely
tempted to tell the pilot to get an effing clue and go away until you had
some idea as to what was going on.The idiot tied up a lot of valuable radio
time with his "ah's, uh, I'm not so sure where I am, what do I do next, etc"

Perhaps this is why the OSH controllers are hand picked volunteers.

This reminds me of a time when I was flying at St. Augustine, before they
had a tower. They used multiple simultaneous intersecting runways, and
there was a lot of student training activity as well. Some guy was mumbling
on the CTAF about where he was "over the river" trying to land, blah, blah,
blah, Cessna blah, blah, blah, a 172 blah, blah, blah- you get the picture

.. I announced that I was entering the midfield downwind for another runway,
and he started going through 60 questions as to where I was, what color
airplane, the name of my firstborn, and other quesitons, tying up a lot of
airtime during a busy day.

I told him over the air maybe he should talk less and look out the window
instead.

One of my friends and aerobatic instructors who now works in a contract
tower but is retired from the FAA gave me some great advice, when I used to
read back every instruction: the less you say over the air, the less chance
of screwing something up. The only thing that you absolutely have to repeat
is a hold short instruction, the rest can be "roger", or "say again"

It seems to work pretty well so far.


"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Viperdoc wrote:

Agree completely. Was listening to the live ATC broadcast, and someone in
a Canadian registered plane calls up and starts talking, also in the
wrong place and completely oblivious. The controller asked him if he had
the arrival notams and where exactly he was, but the guy said he did not
have the information, and was around 5 southwest.

The controller was a model of cool, and went through the normal
procedures to identify the guy and get him sequenced. It's amazing that
more crashes don't actually occur.


That's BS.. "Sir, turn around and fly at least 100 miles in the opposite
direction. Land. Get the notam. Study it and know it. Then takeoff and
fly the procedure."

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
t...

I agree with you- if I had been the controller I would have been sorely
tempted to tell the pilot to get an effing clue and go away until you had
some idea as to what was going on.The idiot tied up a lot of valuable
radio time with his "ah's, uh, I'm not so sure where I am, what do I do
next, etc"


The quickest way to solve a problem like this is to get the pilot on the
ground.



One of my friends and aerobatic instructors who now works in a contract
tower but is retired from the FAA gave me some great advice, when I used
to read back every instruction: the less you say over the air, the less
chance of screwing something up. The only thing that you absolutely have
to repeat is a hold short instruction, the rest can be "roger", or "say
again"



I'm a controller at a field with Class C airspace. Some common problems are
pilots talking too much, taxiing too slow, and flying big patterns. When I
began work on my commercial last year I was informed that I broadcast too
little, taxied too fast, and my patterns were too big.