A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Piloting
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Wondering What Light Sport Can Do For You?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 27th 06, 08:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default Wondering What Light Sport Can Do For You?

When I learned to fly a seaplane, the instructor, a very
experienced seaplane pilot recounted his personal witnessed
landing of a Lake with the wheels down. He is dead now of
old age, so I guess you can just take my word that it isn't
a good idea or you can buy a Lake and try it for yourself.


"Peter Duniho" wrote in
message ...
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:fc8yg.84357$ZW3.70188@dukeread04...
| If you splashdown in a Lake with the wheels down, the
water
| will enter the nosewheel compartment and cause some very
| serious problems with the next take-off. The airplane
will
| perform an imitation of a submarine.
|
| How many times have you landed a Lake in the water with
the wheels down?
| What data do you have to support your claim that the
consequences you
| mention are assured? And why in the world do you think
that water in the
| nosewheel compartment will "cause some very serious
problems with the next
| take-off"? For someone who presumes to know what will
happen in a gear-down
| landing in a Lake amphib, it's interesting to note that
you clearly have no
| idea that the nosewheel compartment of a Lake amphib is
not watertight, and
| that water inside it is not an issue whatsoever.
|
| I am amazed at your willingness to make claims regarding
topics you
| obviously know nothing about.
|
|


  #2  
Old July 27th 06, 08:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Peter Duniho
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 774
Default Wondering What Light Sport Can Do For You?

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:2u8yg.84360$ZW3.50960@dukeread04...
When I learned to fly a seaplane, the instructor, a very
experienced seaplane pilot recounted his personal witnessed
landing of a Lake with the wheels down. He is dead now of
old age, so I guess you can just take my word that it isn't
a good idea or you can buy a Lake and try it for yourself.


I am unclear as to your point. I wrote in my post that gear-down landings
are hazardous. You replied in a way that implied disagreement. Now you are
claiming that "it isn't a good idea", which is exactly what I've been saying
all along.

Do you, or do you not, agree with me that gear-down landings on the water
are hazardous?

As far as buying a Lake and trying it myself, I own a Lake and would never
intentionally land it gear down, for the very reasons I've stated repeatedly
in this thread. If you'd been paying any attention, you'd realize that.

Pete


  #3  
Old July 27th 06, 08:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default Wondering What Light Sport Can Do For You?

I think you completely misread my posts and the intention.

Landing gear down is important on land and gear up on water
is even more important.

The Lake with the wheels down has a large scoop effect on
the nose compartment. On the airplane that was seen, the
water blew out the nose compartment bulkhead. A rapid dive
was the result. Perhaps Lake has strengthened the bulkhead.

On a floatplane with conventional floats, a level or nose
low landing or rough water can [will] dig in and cause the
airplane to flip and sink until the floats are at the
surface and the cabin is under about 6 to 10 feet. With
amphibian floats and a proper nose high landing, being
flipped upside down is still a possibility and no worse than
with conventional floats.

It seems that even a sport pilot with just a few hours could
be taught to raise and lower the gear. I think as much as
safety, the FAA position on LSA is based on retractable
landplanes exceeding the speed limit, something no
floatplane will do.

I hold an ATP but presently no medical. I could fly a LSA,
it does seem that there may be more restrictions than are
necessary. I think a 61.31 endorsement should handle these
types of issues, just as sport pilots can get an endorsement
for different airspace classification, something a student
pilot can handle at 15-20 hours and night flight is allowed
student pilots but not sport pilots.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Peter Duniho" wrote in
message ...
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:2u8yg.84360$ZW3.50960@dukeread04...
| When I learned to fly a seaplane, the instructor, a very
| experienced seaplane pilot recounted his personal
witnessed
| landing of a Lake with the wheels down. He is dead now
of
| old age, so I guess you can just take my word that it
isn't
| a good idea or you can buy a Lake and try it for
yourself.
|
| I am unclear as to your point. I wrote in my post that
gear-down landings
| are hazardous. You replied in a way that implied
disagreement. Now you are
| claiming that "it isn't a good idea", which is exactly
what I've been saying
| all along.
|
| Do you, or do you not, agree with me that gear-down
landings on the water
| are hazardous?
|
| As far as buying a Lake and trying it myself, I own a Lake
and would never
| intentionally land it gear down, for the very reasons I've
stated repeatedly
| in this thread. If you'd been paying any attention, you'd
realize that.
|
| Pete
|
|


  #4  
Old July 28th 06, 02:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Peter Duniho
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 774
Default Wondering What Light Sport Can Do For You?

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:yR8yg.84361$ZW3.33772@dukeread04...
I think you completely misread my posts and the intention.

Landing gear down is important on land and gear up on water
is even more important.


So you are agreeing with my point.

[...]
It seems that even a sport pilot with just a few hours could
be taught to raise and lower the gear.


You'd think a full-fledged Private certificate holder could be taught the
same. And yet, landings with the gear in the wrong position continue to
happen.

And that's my point. The Sport Pilot rules are specifically designed to try
to remove some of the more common opportunities for error that the general
pilot population runs into. It seems plausible that the FAA was trying to
address one of those common opportunities by restricting the type of landing
gear an LSA airplane is allowed to have.

I think as much as
safety, the FAA position on LSA is based on retractable
landplanes exceeding the speed limit, something no
floatplane will do.


I doubt that. The airspeed limit can be exceeded even with fixed-gear
designs, and it's simple enough to flight test any design to find whether it
exceeds the LSA speed limit or not. There should be no reason to add
addition design restrictions for that purpose.

Pete


  #5  
Old July 28th 06, 02:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default Wondering What Light Sport Can Do For You?

I think that you are agreeing with me on the basic point, I
never said that landings with the gear in the wrong position
are safe. I also not that high time commercial and ATP and
even CFI land gear up on runways, the USAF landed a C130 on
the water runway at Patterson, LA many years ago. It was
night and the crew saw the runway lights and landed. The
runway they selected was water with green edge lights and
white threshold lights. Brings to mind that 3,000 foot wide
runway only 150 feet long.

I'm just not look for an argument.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Peter Duniho" wrote in
message ...
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:yR8yg.84361$ZW3.33772@dukeread04...
| I think you completely misread my posts and the
intention.
|
| Landing gear down is important on land and gear up on
water
| is even more important.
|
| So you are agreeing with my point.
|
| [...]
| It seems that even a sport pilot with just a few hours
could
| be taught to raise and lower the gear.
|
| You'd think a full-fledged Private certificate holder
could be taught the
| same. And yet, landings with the gear in the wrong
position continue to
| happen.
|
| And that's my point. The Sport Pilot rules are
specifically designed to try
| to remove some of the more common opportunities for error
that the general
| pilot population runs into. It seems plausible that the
FAA was trying to
| address one of those common opportunities by restricting
the type of landing
| gear an LSA airplane is allowed to have.
|
| I think as much as
| safety, the FAA position on LSA is based on retractable
| landplanes exceeding the speed limit, something no
| floatplane will do.
|
| I doubt that. The airspeed limit can be exceeded even
with fixed-gear
| designs, and it's simple enough to flight test any design
to find whether it
| exceeds the LSA speed limit or not. There should be no
reason to add
| addition design restrictions for that purpose.
|
| Pete
|
|


  #6  
Old July 28th 06, 03:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Peter Duniho
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 774
Default Wondering What Light Sport Can Do For You?

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:%Pdyg.84400$ZW3.14020@dukeread04...
I think that you are agreeing with me on the basic point


If it makes your ego feel better to word it that way, that's fine with me.
Even though it was I who first brought up the issue of the hazard of
gear-down water landings.


  #7  
Old July 28th 06, 03:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default Wondering What Light Sport Can Do For You?

Is this sweeps week?



"Peter Duniho" wrote in
message ...
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:%Pdyg.84400$ZW3.14020@dukeread04...
| I think that you are agreeing with me on the basic point
|
| If it makes your ego feel better to word it that way,
that's fine with me.
| Even though it was I who first brought up the issue of the
hazard of
| gear-down water landings.
|
|


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Got to fly a light sport aircraft Jay Honeck Piloting 13 May 26th 06 09:30 PM
Towing w LSA (Light Sport Aircraft) Jeffrey Banks Soaring 12 September 14th 05 01:48 AM
Sport Light Aircraft regs Bill Daniels Soaring 13 July 22nd 04 07:02 PM
Mooney to Offer Light Sport Airplane Rick Pellicciotti Home Built 4 September 24th 03 01:08 PM
Effect of Light Sport on General Aviation Gilan Home Built 17 September 24th 03 06:11 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.