Finding Rentals

Greg Copeland wrote:
Emily wrote:
snip

It's $110/hr wet rate, including the fuel surcharge. Their instructors
are expensive at $40/hr. They also an Arrow and several DA-20s, in
addition to the two Warriors. Not to mention some type of sport plane.
They also have a Seneca for $200/hr.

I'd be interested in the Seneca, but that's expensive! Last one I
rented went for $155. $110 seems really high for a Warrior, but the
G1000 is cheaper than I've paid (ADS has some for $130ish)

Needless to say, things are much better now. The guys in the tower are
GREAT! They enjoy students coming in. It's very trainer friendly.
When they know you're a student, they're not shy about rating your
landings either. All in good fun of course. After hours (8pm) the
tower shuts down. While I was doing my checkout in the Warrior, we had
some guys trying spot landings on the numbers. A good time was had by
all.

They are a lot better. I went up there IFR one day and decided to do
some landings. lol Instructor and I got after a go around and didn't
get cleared touch and go our third time around. We were the only ones
for miles, and I don't think tower noticed or cared, luckily (my first
NASA form).

If you are a student in the area and are ready for your solo, I highly
recommend doing it at KAFW! Have your instructor call and chat with
the tower and see if you can get an invite.
I soloed a loooong time ago, but I'm always looking for airports with
nice controllers. I've never been to AFW, actually, it's on the list,
but I'm not sure there's anything to do once you land. To be honest,
I'm terrified of flying around the metroplex VFR because I don't know
the roads or landmarks.

enjoyable. That's the day I learned there were IFR and VFR towers.
Huh? I've been up in my fair share of towers, and that's the first time
I've heard that.

Emily wrote:
Greg Copeland wrote:
Emily wrote:
snip

It's $110/hr wet rate, including the fuel surcharge. Their instructors
are expensive at $40/hr. They also an Arrow and several DA-20s, in
addition to the two Warriors. Not to mention some type of sport plane.
They also have a Seneca for $200/hr.

I'd be interested in the Seneca, but that's expensive! Last one I
rented went for $155. $110 seems really high for a Warrior, but the
G1000 is cheaper than I've paid (ADS has some for $130ish)

They are expensive, which is why I didn't train there. Their prices
have come down a little. A year ago when I was looking for a flight
school, their prices worked out to be between $165 - 175/hr, including
the instructor. Needless to say, I easily found better.

I didn't have anything else to which I could compare a Warrior rental
price. So I compared it against a 172; as performance seems
comparible. Using that as a basis for comparison, it comes out a
little more expensive but it's a lot closer (half, or less, the travel
time) and I don't have to worry about race-day traffic and DPS,
etc..etc...on the way to the airport. Chances are, I'll go get checked
out in one of Marcair's 172's some time in the future...but that places
my drive time back up to 30-45 minutes...assuming no race-day traffic.
Not to mention, traffic at 52F can get really insane.

Proudly I can claim I helped prevent a midair at 52F because of some
nut that couldn't fly right. Needless to say, following my radio call,
I watch two planes execute a steep turn at the 45' entry; both to the
right. One pilot thanked me...the other buzzed off as quickly as he
could. That's the day it came home the importance of both, proper
radio calls (the one that left didn't report position - while the
inbound guy had been reporting from 10miles) and the importance of
using proper altitude within the pattern. The reckless guy (a high
wing Cessna) was below pattern and coming up into the guy (a low wing)
on the 45 entry. That combination was almost a really bad day for
someone.

Also, the RV fleet at 52F is rude, dangerous, and think nothing of
cutting people off in the pattern. Which is not to say I won't fly
there....I just don't prefer it and try to avoid flying when the RV's
do. The vast majority that fly there are good, safe pilots, but you do
have to be real careful there.

There is also some nut that flies a tail dragger out there that likes
to dive at the runway as he flies by. Not to mention, wait to the last
minute to pull up to avoid hitting the trees at the end of the runway.
Needless to say, the pilots at 52F are very colorful.


Needless to say, things are much better now. The guys in the tower are
GREAT! They enjoy students coming in. It's very trainer friendly.
When they know you're a student, they're not shy about rating your
landings either. All in good fun of course. After hours (8pm) the
tower shuts down. While I was doing my checkout in the Warrior, we had
some guys trying spot landings on the numbers. A good time was had by
all.

They are a lot better. I went up there IFR one day and decided to do
some landings. lol Instructor and I got after a go around and didn't
get cleared touch and go our third time around. We were the only ones
for miles, and I don't think tower noticed or cared, luckily (my first
NASA form).

If you are a student in the area and are ready for your solo, I highly
recommend doing it at KAFW! Have your instructor call and chat with
the tower and see if you can get an invite.
I soloed a loooong time ago, but I'm always looking for airports with
nice controllers. I've never been to AFW, actually, it's on the list,
but I'm not sure there's anything to do once you land. To be honest,
I'm terrified of flying around the metroplex VFR because I don't know
the roads or landmarks.


To be clear, unless its a stop for the speed way...or you're delivering
for Fed-Ex, or MAYBE can catch a navy pilot to BS with...otherwise,
there is nothing there.

enjoyable. That's the day I learned there were IFR and VFR towers.
Huh? I've been up in my fair share of towers, and that's the first time
I've heard that.

Ya, seems VFR towers can only separate traffic with clock facings
(north bound traffic at 2 'o clock). IFR towers can vector you around
it with specific headings and bearings. KAFW does have a scope but
they told me that can ONLY give clock headings and relative clock
bearings.

Greg

Greg Copeland wrote:

snip

They are expensive, which is why I didn't train there. Their prices
have come down a little. A year ago when I was looking for a flight
school, their prices worked out to be between $165 - 175/hr, including
the instructor. Needless to say, I easily found better.
Yeah, i think ADS is cheaper. Then again, I don't usually fly with an
instructor, so that saves money right there.

Not to mention, traffic at 52F can get really insane.
Where is 52F? Probably not close to me. I'm smacked between DAL and
DFW, so no airport is really close.

Ya, seems VFR towers can only separate traffic with clock facings
(north bound traffic at 2 'o clock). IFR towers can vector you around
it with specific headings and bearings. KAFW does have a scope but
they told me that can ONLY give clock headings and relative clock
bearings.
Oh, you're talking actual radar vs. reading off someone else's feed.
Did someone at the tower describe it as IFR vs. VFR? Really, it's two
completely different things. I usually fly IFR and while I'm IFR, can
talk to any ATC facility. Whether or not they can see me is a different
story.

Emily wrote:
Greg Copeland wrote:

snip

They are expensive, which is why I didn't train there. Their prices
have come down a little. A year ago when I was looking for a flight
school, their prices worked out to be between $165 - 175/hr, including
the instructor. Needless to say, I easily found better.
Yeah, i think ADS is cheaper. Then again, I don't usually fly with an
instructor, so that saves money right there.

Not to mention, traffic at 52F can get really insane.
Where is 52F? Probably not close to me. I'm smacked between DAL and
DFW, so no airport is really close.


52F is right across the highway from Texas Motor Speedway and spitting
distance from KAFW. In fact, 52F is right outside of KAFW's airspace
(the Speedway is within their airspace).

Ya, seems VFR towers can only separate traffic with clock facings
(north bound traffic at 2 'o clock). IFR towers can vector you around
it with specific headings and bearings. KAFW does have a scope but
they told me that can ONLY give clock headings and relative clock
bearings.
Oh, you're talking actual radar vs. reading off someone else's feed.
Did someone at the tower describe it as IFR vs. VFR? Really, it's two
completely different things. I usually fly IFR and while I'm IFR, can
talk to any ATC facility. Whether or not they can see me is a different
story.

Ya. I don't remember the question I asked which got that response, but
they said, "We're only a VFR tower." To which I said, "What does that
mean?" That's where they told me they can only give out clock face
headings and bearings for traffic seperation.


Greg

Emily wrote:
Greg Copeland wrote:

snip

They are expensive, which is why I didn't train there. Their prices
have come down a little. A year ago when I was looking for a flight
school, their prices worked out to be between $165 - 175/hr, including
the instructor. Needless to say, I easily found better.
Yeah, i think ADS is cheaper. Then again, I don't usually fly with an
instructor, so that saves money right there.

Not to mention, traffic at 52F can get really insane.
Where is 52F? Probably not close to me. I'm smacked between DAL and
DFW, so no airport is really close.

Ya, seems VFR towers can only separate traffic with clock facings
(north bound traffic at 2 'o clock). IFR towers can vector you around
it with specific headings and bearings. KAFW does have a scope but
they told me that can ONLY give clock headings and relative clock
bearings.
Oh, you're talking actual radar vs. reading off someone else's feed.
Did someone at the tower describe it as IFR vs. VFR? Really, it's two
completely different things. I usually fly IFR and while I'm IFR, can
talk to any ATC facility. Whether or not they can see me is a different
story.

To be clear...I do not believe that reflected the type of flight
services they provide (IFR, VFR). For all I know it was local tower
jargon.

Greg

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:31:20 -0700, Greg Copeland wrote:

To be clear...I do not believe that reflected the type of flight services
they provide (IFR, VFR). For all I know it was local tower jargon.

I've no proof, but I've always assumed that this label referred to the
level of service that could be provided in IFR conditions. For example,
CDW is (as far as I know) capable of handling a single IFR (or SVFR)
operation in its airspace at a time. The reason: it cannot provide
separation.

TEB, on the other hand, provides separation and so can handle concurrent
IFRers.

Yet both airports are in their own class D airspaces.

From an equipment perspective, TEB has its own RADAR while CDW has a BRITE
from EWR. More, the local geography is such that only about half the
pattern is visible on the BRITE (due to a hill's shadow).

I assume that the equipment difference is the cause of the difference
in services, but it's also possible that the difference in services is why
the equipment is different.

- Andrew

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:42:14 -0500, Emily wrote:

$110 seems really high for a Warrior, but the
G1000 is cheaper than I've paid (ADS has some for $130ish)

BTW, you never said what you would expect to pay for a Warrior.
??

Greg