Scared of mid-airs

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

The above posting is not correct. IFR planes have a unique box *only*
against other IFR traffic -- VFR traffic is not mentioned. That is why
you *have* to keep a lookout for traffic when you are under IFR.


Er... what do you mean by "keep a lookout for traffic under IFR"?
Lookout on the radar, surely??

Ramapriya

If you're not in a cloud, you are required to look out the
windows.



wrote in message
oups.com...
| Orval Fairbairn wrote:
|
| The above posting is not correct. IFR planes have a
unique box *only*
| against other IFR traffic -- VFR traffic is not
mentioned. That is why
| you *have* to keep a lookout for traffic when you are
under IFR.
|
|
| Er... what do you mean by "keep a lookout for traffic
under IFR"?
| Lookout on the radar, surely??
|
| Ramapriya
|

On 07/30/06 22:22, wrote:
Orval Fairbairn wrote:

The above posting is not correct. IFR planes have a unique box *only*
against other IFR traffic -- VFR traffic is not mentioned. That is why
you *have* to keep a lookout for traffic when you are under IFR.


Er... what do you mean by "keep a lookout for traffic under IFR"?
Lookout on the radar, surely??

Ramapriya


You're confusing Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) with Instrument Meteorological
Conditions (IMC). Regardless if the flight is IFR or VFR, when you are in
VMC, you must see and avoid other aircraft (and other flying things as well...)



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Er... what do you mean by "keep a lookout for traffic under IFR"?
Lookout on the radar, surely??

Nope. Traffic out the window.

In brief, "IFR" is a set of rules to fly by, which permits flying in the
clouds. "IMC" means weather in which one cannot see out the window.
Only IFR airplanes can fly in IMC.

"VMC" means weather in which you =can= see out the window. In that kind
of weather, you can still fly IFR (in fact, if you are in and out of
clouds, you will be in VMC and then in IMC and then back in VMC...).
However, other airplanes may be flying VFR (which is a different set of
rules to fly by). Under VFR (rules), the pilots look out the window and
avoid each other, since they can see.

The upshot is that under IFR (rules), air traffic controllers separate
other IFR traffic from you. They do not separate VFR traffic from you.

If you are in IMC (i.e. clouds) and can't see, there should be no VFR
traffic for you to avoid. If you are in VMC, then (like all other
pilots), you need to look out the window. But, since it's VMC, you can.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Thanks a lot, Jose and Jim; much appreciated

Ramapriya

Jose wrote:
Er... what do you mean by "keep a lookout for traffic under IFR"?
Lookout on the radar, surely??

Nope. Traffic out the window.

In brief, "IFR" is a set of rules to fly by, which permits flying in the
clouds. "IMC" means weather in which one cannot see out the window.
Only IFR airplanes can fly in IMC.

"VMC" means weather in which you =can= see out the window. In that kind
of weather, you can still fly IFR (in fact, if you are in and out of
clouds, you will be in VMC and then in IMC and then back in VMC...).
However, other airplanes may be flying VFR (which is a different set of
rules to fly by). Under VFR (rules), the pilots look out the window and
avoid each other, since they can see.

The upshot is that under IFR (rules), air traffic controllers separate
other IFR traffic from you. They do not separate VFR traffic from you.

If you are in IMC (i.e. clouds) and can't see, there should be no VFR
traffic for you to avoid. If you are in VMC, then (like all other
pilots), you need to look out the window. But, since it's VMC, you can.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article .com,
wrote:

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

The above posting is not correct. IFR planes have a unique box *only*
against other IFR traffic -- VFR traffic is not mentioned. That is why
you *have* to keep a lookout for traffic when you are under IFR.


Er... what do you mean by "keep a lookout for traffic under IFR"?
Lookout on the radar, surely??

Ramapriya

No -- look out the damned windshield! You can be on a IFR flight plan in
"severe clear" conditions.

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

Er... what do you mean by "keep a lookout for traffic under IFR"?
Lookout on the radar, surely??

Ramapriya

No -- look out the damned windshield! You can be on a IFR flight plan in
"severe clear" conditions.


Point taken, thanks. The mistake I made was in thinking that IFR = fly
by instruments, with no visibility outside. I know now that that's IMC,
not IFR

Ramapriya

(don't forget to remove the PED prepend if you are going to go back to
talking about aviation!

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
(don't forget to remove the PED prepend if you are going to go back to talking about
aviation!

Jose

I'm being thick here but what's PED? Public Education Dept? Performance
Enhancing Drugs?

Ramapriya

I'm being thick here but what's PED? Public Education Dept? Performance
Enhancing Drugs?

It's one of the conventions we've established here for subject lines.
Others a

OT - off topic
FS - for sale
POL - political discussion (sometimes a thread moves that way)
PED - pedantry (little nitpicking having nothing to do with aviation)

The last two were recently added. Although nothing like this is ever
official on Usenet, if we adopt them it helps people to filter out stuff
they don't want to see.

There are a few others which escape me at the moment. The idea is to
start the subject line with one of these if the topic warrants it (or to
modify the existing subject line thus if you are replying in such a
manner).

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.