Scared of mid-airs

A telescope, ROTFLMAO. "Shiver me timbers mate's, pieces of eight on dead
men's chest" and all that other pirate talk, The telescope must have been
introduced by the "Jolly Rogers". The mental image of a GIB from
VF-84/VF-103 standing up in the back seat scanning the sky with a spyglass
and shouting to the pilot, "Thar be the target!" was just too much for me to
bear.

It's an "AN/AXX-1 Television Camera Set (TCS)". Even with enhancements and
under the best of conditions you can probably ID a DC-10 at 80 miles, F-111
at 40 miles, C-130 at 35 miles and F-5 at 10 miles. However there are newer
designs that may be able to do better, especially with all the computing
power available today in smaller packages.


"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:FF6zg.84651$ZW3.43673@dukeread04...
With a few possible exceptions, fighter aircraft radar is
two types, a search and a fire control radar. Both have a
fairly small cone in which to detect a target. They depend
on being vectored in the general direction of a threat in
order to detect a target. Also, military aircraft have
radar detectors that warn the pilot/crew that they are being
painted by somebody's radar.

But it isn't really a system designed for anti-collision
use, but to keep from being shot down or to find a target to
shoot. The F14 even has a telescope to allow visual
confirmation of targets that are 100 miles away after the
radar has found the target, rules of engagement require
visual confirmation.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
| On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:35:46 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| wrote:
|
| True, but often they have an AWACS or military ground
radar.
|
|
| No kidding? They also often have their own radar and have
been trained
| to look at it and interpret it with greater detail than
following an
| up/down arrow on a TCAS. They've also been trained to
provide their
| own separation and to operate in areas without the
| all-seeing/all-knowing motherliness of Air Traffic
Control.
|
| Nevertheless as Mr. Dighera incessantly points out,
"stuff"
| happens--but it ain't murder.
|
| Ed Rasimus
| Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
| "When Thunder Rolled"
| www.thunderchief.org
| www.thundertales.blogspot.com

With a telephoto lens, all telescopes have electronic
displays, but many pilots carry [ied] binoculars.


"Red Rider" wrote in message
m...
|A telescope, ROTFLMAO. "Shiver me timbers mate's, pieces of
eight on dead
| men's chest" and all that other pirate talk, The telescope
must have been
| introduced by the "Jolly Rogers". The mental image of a
GIB from
| VF-84/VF-103 standing up in the back seat scanning the sky
with a spyglass
| and shouting to the pilot, "Thar be the target!" was just
too much for me to
| bear.
|
| It's an "AN/AXX-1 Television Camera Set (TCS)". Even with
enhancements and
| under the best of conditions you can probably ID a DC-10
at 80 miles, F-111
| at 40 miles, C-130 at 35 miles and F-5 at 10 miles.
However there are newer
| designs that may be able to do better, especially with all
the computing
| power available today in smaller packages.
|
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:FF6zg.84651$ZW3.43673@dukeread04...
| With a few possible exceptions, fighter aircraft radar
is
| two types, a search and a fire control radar. Both have
a
| fairly small cone in which to detect a target. They
depend
| on being vectored in the general direction of a threat
in
| order to detect a target. Also, military aircraft have
| radar detectors that warn the pilot/crew that they are
being
| painted by somebody's radar.
|
| But it isn't really a system designed for anti-collision
| use, but to keep from being shot down or to find a
target to
| shoot. The F14 even has a telescope to allow visual
| confirmation of targets that are 100 miles away after
the
| radar has found the target, rules of engagement require
| visual confirmation.
|
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFI,A&P
|
| "Ed Rasimus" wrote in
message
| ...
| | On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:35:46 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| | wrote:
| |
| | True, but often they have an AWACS or military ground
| radar.
| |
| |
| | No kidding? They also often have their own radar and
have
| been trained
| | to look at it and interpret it with greater detail
than
| following an
| | up/down arrow on a TCAS. They've also been trained to
| provide their
| | own separation and to operate in areas without the
| | all-seeing/all-knowing motherliness of Air Traffic
| Control.
| |
| | Nevertheless as Mr. Dighera incessantly points out,
| "stuff"
| | happens--but it ain't murder.
| |
| | Ed Rasimus
| | Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
| | "When Thunder Rolled"
| | www.thunderchief.org
| | www.thundertales.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 01:03:19 GMT, "Red Rider"
wrote:

It's an "AN/AXX-1 Television Camera Set (TCS)". Even with enhancements and
under the best of conditions you can probably ID a DC-10 at 80 miles, F-111
at 40 miles, C-130 at 35 miles and F-5 at 10 miles. However there are newer
designs that may be able to do better, especially with all the computing
power available today in smaller packages.

The F-5 at ten miles with the TCS gave me a flashback moment (and at
my age they are always appreciated.)

Mission was out of Holloman with me leading a T-38 four-ship to the
Red Rio tactical range. Escorted by a pair of F-15As out of the 49th
TFW. Target area defended by a pair of Nellis Aggressor F-5s. Run in
at low altitude at 450 knots (Attn Mr. Dighera--this is what we do.
It's a training situation in controlled restricted airspace. Light
planes HAVE blundered into it despite restrictions.)

Eagles flying out-rigger and slightly aft of my flight. I called
visual on "MiGs, left 11 slightly high at four miles". Eagles with
their cosmic radar and A/A specialization hadn't seen them.

GCI over-seeing the mission confirmed during debrief play-back that
the actual contact distance was 11 miles. Mark 1/Mod O eyeball!!!

Them was the good ol' days.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 01:03:19 GMT, "Red Rider"
wrote:

It's an "AN/AXX-1 Television Camera Set (TCS)". Even with enhancements and
under the best of conditions you can probably ID a DC-10 at 80 miles,
F-111
at 40 miles, C-130 at 35 miles and F-5 at 10 miles. However there are
newer
designs that may be able to do better, especially with all the computing
power available today in smaller packages.

The F-5 at ten miles with the TCS gave me a flashback moment (and at
my age they are always appreciated.)

Mission was out of Holloman with me leading a T-38 four-ship to the
Red Rio tactical range. Escorted by a pair of F-15As out of the 49th
TFW. Target area defended by a pair of Nellis Aggressor F-5s. Run in
at low altitude at 450 knots (Attn Mr. Dighera--this is what we do.
It's a training situation in controlled restricted airspace. Light
planes HAVE blundered into it despite restrictions.)

Eagles flying out-rigger and slightly aft of my flight. I called
visual on "MiGs, left 11 slightly high at four miles". Eagles with
their cosmic radar and A/A specialization hadn't seen them.

GCI over-seeing the mission confirmed during debrief play-back that
the actual contact distance was 11 miles. Mark 1/Mod O eyeball!!!

Them was the good ol' days.

F-5s are a bugger to spot, too.

Doing a defence of the Lazy D hill feature at Gagetown (723' ASL in CYR 724)
we had both F-5s and Hornets flying against us. I surprised myself when I
picked up a Hornet of 425 "Alouette" Squadron well out there, about 20 Km
and less than 100 feet off the deck. Its low-visibility grey stood out
against a bright blue sky. Engaging it was cinch as we could track it all
the way in. Minutes later a little dirty green and dark grey F-5 of 434
"Bluenose" Squadron dragged himself out of the Saint John River valley where
he had been about 50 feet above the river and attacked us ground troops --
from below! His crossing rate was so high we could scarcely draw a bead on
him until he was almost at the line of weapon release.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:08:39 -0400, "Andrew Chaplin"
wrote:


F-5s are a bugger to spot, too.

Doing a defence of the Lazy D hill feature at Gagetown (723' ASL in CYR 724)
we had both F-5s and Hornets flying against us. I surprised myself when I
picked up a Hornet of 425 "Alouette" Squadron well out there, about 20 Km
and less than 100 feet off the deck. Its low-visibility grey stood out
against a bright blue sky. Engaging it was cinch as we could track it all
the way in. Minutes later a little dirty green and dark grey F-5 of 434
"Bluenose" Squadron dragged himself out of the Saint John River valley where
he had been about 50 feet above the river and attacked us ground troops --
from below! His crossing rate was so high we could scarcely draw a bead on
him until he was almost at the line of weapon release.

When I first arrived at Holloman to IP for IPs at Fighter Lead-In, we
still had a lot of the former Aggressor AT-38s in their various paint
schemes. It was about a year later that they standardized the
blue-blue-gray glossy "Smurf" paint.

I recall being on a 1-v-1 against a brown/tan "Lizard". He closed on
me in a 90 degree beam set-up and I watched him track in from about
three miles until at about 2500 feet he simply disappeared! I had been
pad-locked on him as he closed waiting for him to commit and while
totally focussed on him, he turned on the cloaking device. Most
amazing demonstration of camoflage I had ever seen.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com