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On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 13:13:08 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote: "Ed Rasimus" wrote in message .. . MOAs typically are at altitudes that place them in positive control airspace. ATC will not provide clearance for GA aircraft through a MOA that is in use by the military. MOAs that include airspace below positive control can have VFR aircraft in transit. We used to get them all the time in the Beak and Talon MOAs east of Holloman. MOAs are never in positive control airspace. Many MOAs have an ATCAA directly above them of the same name and lateral limits. Has that been a recent change? The airspace we used at Holloman for most of the AT-38 training was to the East. The restricted airspace over White Sands was used mostly by the 49th wing F-15s as it was supersonic and ran surface to very high altitudes. It was used for both flight and missile testing including Surface-to-air (ie Patriot) and air-to-air (against Firebee variants and QF aircraft). To the East we had the Beaks (A,B and C) and Talons (North, East and West). They were MOAs and extended from 10,000 AGl to FL 450--which put them both below and within APC (which in those days commenced at FL180). We routinely had VFR GA traffic particularly in the Ruidoso Airport area passing under the Beaks, but only rare exceptions of folks exercising their VFR transit rights. ATC radar coverage, because of high terrain on several sides, was intermittent at lower altitudes, but occasionally ABQ Center would give an advisory of VFR traffic and would always provide notice of IFR traffic along the bordering airways. We usually had the traffic before ATC said anything. Probably the ATCAA is the explanation. We just considered it MOA. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" www.thunderchief.org www.thundertales.blogspot.com |
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![]() "Ed Rasimus" wrote in message ... Has that been a recent change? The airspace we used at Holloman for most of the AT-38 training was to the East. The restricted airspace over White Sands was used mostly by the 49th wing F-15s as it was supersonic and ran surface to very high altitudes. It was used for both flight and missile testing including Surface-to-air (ie Patriot) and air-to-air (against Firebee variants and QF aircraft). To the East we had the Beaks (A,B and C) and Talons (North, East and West). They were MOAs and extended from 10,000 AGl to FL 450--which put them both below and within APC (which in those days commenced at FL180). We routinely had VFR GA traffic particularly in the Ruidoso Airport area passing under the Beaks, but only rare exceptions of folks exercising their VFR transit rights. ATC radar coverage, because of high terrain on several sides, was intermittent at lower altitudes, but occasionally ABQ Center would give an advisory of VFR traffic and would always provide notice of IFR traffic along the bordering airways. We usually had the traffic before ATC said anything. Probably the ATCAA is the explanation. We just considered it MOA. It's been that way since the MOA was created 31 years ago. Incidentally, ATC CAN clear non-using IFR aircraft through a MOA under the right conditions. One of those conditions is ATC must also be working the aircraft using the MOA. I know of no location where this is done, however. |
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