Missing flight plans

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 08/04/06 13:42, Newps wrote:


Mark Hansen wrote:



Actually, ATC is not required to maintain communications with you,
and if you suddenly disappear, they may assume you just went off-
frequency and shut off your transponder (or had a power failure,
etc.). I don't see why they would begin a search and rescue in
this case.


ATC is required to, that's why.


When you're on flight following (traffic advisories) and have stop
talking to ATC, they are required to begin a search and rescue operation?

Yes, if the loss of comm or radar was unexpected.

On 08/04/06 14:55, Newps wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 08/04/06 13:42, Newps wrote:


Mark Hansen wrote:



Actually, ATC is not required to maintain communications with you,
and if you suddenly disappear, they may assume you just went off-
frequency and shut off your transponder (or had a power failure,
etc.). I don't see why they would begin a search and rescue in
this case.


ATC is required to, that's why.


When you're on flight following (traffic advisories) and have stop
talking to ATC, they are required to begin a search and rescue operation?

Yes, if the loss of comm or radar was unexpected.

Can you provide a reference to the regulation that explains this? It is
not what I was taught - and I'm always willing to learn ;-)

Thanks,



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

On 08/04/06 14:57, Mark Hansen wrote:
On 08/04/06 14:55, Newps wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 08/04/06 13:42, Newps wrote:


Mark Hansen wrote:



Actually, ATC is not required to maintain communications with you,
and if you suddenly disappear, they may assume you just went off-
frequency and shut off your transponder (or had a power failure,
etc.). I don't see why they would begin a search and rescue in
this case.


ATC is required to, that's why.


When you're on flight following (traffic advisories) and have stop
talking to ATC, they are required to begin a search and rescue operation?

Yes, if the loss of comm or radar was unexpected.

Can you provide a reference to the regulation that explains this?

Just to clarify, what I mean is can you show the regulation which states
that ATC is required to begin search and rescue operations if they lose
radio contact with an airplane that was on flight following.

It is
not what I was taught - and I'm always willing to learn ;-)

Thanks,






--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Mark Hansen wrote:




Just to clarify, what I mean is can you show the regulation which states
that ATC is required to begin search and rescue operations if they lose
radio contact with an airplane that was on flight following.

Absolutely. Knock yourself out.


http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/ATC/index.htm

On 08/04/06 16:33, Newps wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:




Just to clarify, what I mean is can you show the regulation which states
that ATC is required to begin search and rescue operations if they lose
radio contact with an airplane that was on flight following.

Absolutely. Knock yourself out.


http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/ATC/index.htm

So, you're answer is "no". Got it. Thanks,



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Mark Hansen wrote:
So, you're answer is "no". Got it. Thanks,

Actually, had you invested 5 minutes, you would have found:

"10-2-5. EMERGENCY SITUATIONS
Consider that an aircraft emergency exists and inform the RCC or ARTCC and
alert the appropriate DF facility when:
[...]
b. There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with
any IFR or VFR aircraft.
[..]"

http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/ATC/Chp10/atc1002.html#10-2-5

Anno.

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 08/04/06 16:33, Newps wrote:


Mark Hansen wrote:




Just to clarify, what I mean is can you show the regulation which states
that ATC is required to begin search and rescue operations if they lose
radio contact with an airplane that was on flight following.


Absolutely. Knock yourself out.


http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/ATC/index.htm


So, you're answer is "no". Got it. Thanks,

Exactly.

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/06 16:33, Newps wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:




Just to clarify, what I mean is can you show the regulation which states
that ATC is required to begin search and rescue operations if they lose
radio contact with an airplane that was on flight following.

Absolutely. Knock yourself out.


http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/ATC/index.htm

So, you're answer is "no". Got it. Thanks,





I think B will be of interest.



10-2-5. EMERGENCY SITUATIONS

Consider that an aircraft emergency exists and inform the RCC or ARTCC and
alert the appropriate DF facility when:

NOTE-
1. USAF facilities are only required to notify the ARTCC.

2. The requirement to alert DF facilities may be deleted if radar contact
will be maintained throughout the duration of the emergency.

a. An emergency is declared by either:

1. The pilot.

2. Facility personnel.

3. Officials responsible for the operation of the aircraft.

b. There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with
any IFR or VFR aircraft.

c. Reports indicate it has made a forced landing, is about to do so, or its
operating efficiency is so impaired that a forced landing will be necessary.

d. Reports indicate the crew has abandoned the aircraft or is about to do
so.

e. An emergency radar beacon response is received.

NOTE-
EN ROUTE. During Stage A operation, Code 7700 causes EMRG to blink in field
E of the data block.

f. Intercept or escort aircraft services are required.

g. The need for ground rescue appears likely.

h. An Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) signal is heard or reported.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Providing Assistance, Para 10-1-3.
FAAO 7110.65, Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) Signals, Para 10-2-10.

On 08/07/06 06:13, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/06 16:33, Newps wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:




Just to clarify, what I mean is can you show the regulation which states
that ATC is required to begin search and rescue operations if they lose
radio contact with an airplane that was on flight following.

Absolutely. Knock yourself out.


http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/ATC/index.htm

So, you're answer is "no". Got it. Thanks,





I think B will be of interest.

But the assertion I was questioning was with regard to the loss of radio
communications only. Not coms *and* radar. Paragraph 'B' you quote (below)
is for the loss of *both* comms *and* radar contact.




10-2-5. EMERGENCY SITUATIONS

Consider that an aircraft emergency exists and inform the RCC or ARTCC and
alert the appropriate DF facility when:

NOTE-
1. USAF facilities are only required to notify the ARTCC.

2. The requirement to alert DF facilities may be deleted if radar contact
will be maintained throughout the duration of the emergency.

a. An emergency is declared by either:

1. The pilot.

2. Facility personnel.

3. Officials responsible for the operation of the aircraft.

b. There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with
any IFR or VFR aircraft.

c. Reports indicate it has made a forced landing, is about to do so, or its
operating efficiency is so impaired that a forced landing will be necessary.

d. Reports indicate the crew has abandoned the aircraft or is about to do
so.

e. An emergency radar beacon response is received.

NOTE-
EN ROUTE. During Stage A operation, Code 7700 causes EMRG to blink in field
E of the data block.

f. Intercept or escort aircraft services are required.

g. The need for ground rescue appears likely.

h. An Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) signal is heard or reported.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Providing Assistance, Para 10-1-3.
FAAO 7110.65, Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) Signals, Para 10-2-10.





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote:
[...]
10-2-5. EMERGENCY SITUATIONS
[...]
b. There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with
any IFR or VFR aircraft.
[...]

I think I'm having a déjà-vu. Check Msg-Id
and Mark's answer to it.

But I'm glad I'm not the only one who got lost in the course of this
conversation.

Anno.