Scared of mid-airs

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
news

So you're contradicting Mr. Rasimus' assertion that the military only
flies IFR flight plans?


I'm saying there are VFR flight plans and the military operates VFR on VFR
MTRs.

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 01:00:31 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
t:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
news

So you're contradicting Mr. Rasimus' assertion that the military only
flies IFR flight plans?


I'm saying there are VFR flight plans and the military operates VFR on VFR
MTRs.


Thanks.

Larry Dighera wrote:



If Mr. Rasimus' assertion, that the flight plan type for the military
is IFR is correct, and MTRs are created for military use, why are
there VFR MTRs? Presumably the military won't be operating VFR on VFR
MTRs.

The military often flies on an IFR flight plan and then takes
responsibility for its own separation from other military aircraft and
the ground. It's really nothing more than flight following. ATC just
waits for them to get done playing, get separated and then we take over.
However to say they are always IFR is ridiculous. Ya can't fly at 200
agl in yer B52 IFR.

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 16:59:21 -0600, Newps wrote
in :



Larry Dighera wrote:



If Mr. Rasimus' assertion, that the flight plan type for the military
is IFR is correct, and MTRs are created for military use, why are
there VFR MTRs? Presumably the military won't be operating VFR on VFR
MTRs.

The military often flies on an IFR flight plan and then takes
responsibility for its own separation from other military aircraft and
the ground. It's really nothing more than flight following. ATC just
waits for them to get done playing, get separated and then we take over.
However to say they are always IFR is ridiculous. Ya can't fly at 200
agl in yer B52 IFR.


Well, I thought it was an exaggeration if not ridiculous. But he may
know something I don't. :-)

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 16:59:21 -0600, Newps wrote:



Larry Dighera wrote:



If Mr. Rasimus' assertion, that the flight plan type for the military
is IFR is correct, and MTRs are created for military use, why are
there VFR MTRs? Presumably the military won't be operating VFR on VFR
MTRs.

The military often flies on an IFR flight plan and then takes
responsibility for its own separation from other military aircraft and
the ground. It's really nothing more than flight following. ATC just
waits for them to get done playing, get separated and then we take over.
However to say they are always IFR is ridiculous. Ya can't fly at 200
agl in yer B52 IFR.

Do not confuse IFR--the rules, with IMC--the weather. You can drive
yer BUFF along the low level route under visual rules in visual
weather--but you departed the home drome on an IFR flight plan and
when you complete the route you will resume your IFR flight plan for
recovery.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 16:36:41 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 00:27:47 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
t:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
. ..

Every flight, every day, by the military is on a flight plan.


Even those flights on VFR MTRs?


Yes.


Then why are there IFR MTRs and VFR MTRs?


Are there IFR and VFR flight plans?


Yes, but our resident fighter pilot asserts:

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:34:22 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote in
:

Regardless, the flight plan type for the military is IFR.

If that were true, it prompts my questioning the need for VFR MTRs.

It is possible to fly on an IFR flight plan in VFR. VFR MTRs are
established because they cannot be flown in IMC (Instrument
Meterological Conditions, i.e. bad weather.) Low level routes are
usually VFR routes. The flight will still be conducted on an IFR
flight plan.

Are you dense or merely difficult?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

Larry Dighera wrote:

Yes, but our resident fighter pilot asserts:

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:34:22 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote in
:


Regardless, the flight plan type for the military is IFR.


If that were true, it prompts my questioning the need for VFR MTRs.

Oh heavens no. It's not uncommon for the F16's around here to show up
VFR unannounced, do a few approaches and then a few patterns and then
disappear VFR. And of course the helicopters are always flitting around
VFR. They may stop, they may just get flight following for awhile as
long as we can see them.

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 16:55:12 -0600, Newps wrote
in :



Larry Dighera wrote:

Yes, but our resident fighter pilot asserts:

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:34:22 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote in
:


Regardless, the flight plan type for the military is IFR.


If that were true, it prompts my questioning the need for VFR MTRs.

Oh heavens no. It's not uncommon for the F16's around here to show up
VFR unannounced, do a few approaches and then a few patterns and then
disappear VFR. And of course the helicopters are always flitting around
VFR. They may stop, they may just get flight following for awhile as
long as we can see them.

So it would seem, that in your experience with F-16s (not helos with
which Mr. Rasimus was uncertain), Mr. Rasimus' assertion "the flight
plan type for the military is IFR" is not always the case.

Larry Dighera wrote:




So it would seem, that in your experience with F-16s (not helos with
which Mr. Rasimus was uncertain), Mr. Rasimus' assertion "the flight
plan type for the military is IFR" is not always the case.

It's a ridiculous assertion.

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 18:37:17 -0600, Newps wrote:



Larry Dighera wrote:




So it would seem, that in your experience with F-16s (not helos with
which Mr. Rasimus was uncertain), Mr. Rasimus' assertion "the flight
plan type for the military is IFR" is not always the case.

It's a ridiculous assertion.

Can you establish some credentials. If I am wrong, I will admit it.
But right now we have you with a pseudonym and posting from
.

Are you a controller? Military? A pilot? Civilian or military? Are you
part of the ATC structure? Do you handle the flight plans? Work in
base ops? Are you in scheduling?

I have made mistakes in the past--my first wife comes to mind. But, I
flew fasts jets for the company for 23 years at various locations
around the world. That gives me a leg up on Mr. Dighera and unless you
possess some currency qualifications, it would seem to give me some
insight over you as well. If wrong, I'm happy to admit it.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com