Scared of mid-airs

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 16:55:12 -0600, Newps wrote
in :



Larry Dighera wrote:

Yes, but our resident fighter pilot asserts:

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:34:22 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote in
:


Regardless, the flight plan type for the military is IFR.


If that were true, it prompts my questioning the need for VFR MTRs.

Oh heavens no. It's not uncommon for the F16's around here to show up
VFR unannounced, do a few approaches and then a few patterns and then
disappear VFR. And of course the helicopters are always flitting around
VFR. They may stop, they may just get flight following for awhile as
long as we can see them.

So it would seem, that in your experience with F-16s (not helos with
which Mr. Rasimus was uncertain), Mr. Rasimus' assertion "the flight
plan type for the military is IFR" is not always the case.

Larry Dighera wrote:




So it would seem, that in your experience with F-16s (not helos with
which Mr. Rasimus was uncertain), Mr. Rasimus' assertion "the flight
plan type for the military is IFR" is not always the case.

It's a ridiculous assertion.

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 18:37:17 -0600, Newps wrote:



Larry Dighera wrote:




So it would seem, that in your experience with F-16s (not helos with
which Mr. Rasimus was uncertain), Mr. Rasimus' assertion "the flight
plan type for the military is IFR" is not always the case.

It's a ridiculous assertion.

Can you establish some credentials. If I am wrong, I will admit it.
But right now we have you with a pseudonym and posting from
.

Are you a controller? Military? A pilot? Civilian or military? Are you
part of the ATC structure? Do you handle the flight plans? Work in
base ops? Are you in scheduling?

I have made mistakes in the past--my first wife comes to mind. But, I
flew fasts jets for the company for 23 years at various locations
around the world. That gives me a leg up on Mr. Dighera and unless you
possess some currency qualifications, it would seem to give me some
insight over you as well. If wrong, I'm happy to admit it.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 00:10:54 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 16:55:12 -0600, Newps wrote
in :



Larry Dighera wrote:

Yes, but our resident fighter pilot asserts:

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:34:22 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote in
:


Regardless, the flight plan type for the military is IFR.


If that were true, it prompts my questioning the need for VFR MTRs.

Oh heavens no. It's not uncommon for the F16's around here to show up
VFR unannounced, do a few approaches and then a few patterns and then
disappear VFR. And of course the helicopters are always flitting around
VFR. They may stop, they may just get flight following for awhile as
long as we can see them.

So it would seem, that in your experience with F-16s (not helos with
which Mr. Rasimus was uncertain), Mr. Rasimus' assertion "the flight
plan type for the military is IFR" is not always the case.

Let's establish some things with Newp. Where is "here" and who is
"we"? Where did the F-16s come from? Does he work at an ATC facility?
At a military or joint-use airport?

The Vipers departed their home station on an IFR flight plan--they
most likely conduct most of their mission in visual conditions and
under visual flight rules--but they depart the home station and
recover on an IFR flight plan. The departed on an instrument
departure, whether to a training area or a range or another airport.
The will recover on an instrument penetration which may terminate in
an instrument approach or a VFR hand-off to tower.

It is still an IFR flight plan.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

("Ed Rasimus" wrote)
Let's establish some things with Newp. Where is "here" and who is "we"?
Where did the F-16s come from? Does he work at an ATC facility? At a
military or joint-use airport?


ATC ...out west.

Google/Groups/RAP/Newps/First thread.../Second thread.../etc


Montblack

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:59:50 -0500, "Montblack"
wrote:

("Ed Rasimus" wrote)
Let's establish some things with Newp. Where is "here" and who is "we"?
Where did the F-16s come from? Does he work at an ATC facility? At a
military or joint-use airport?


ATC ...out west.

Google/Groups/RAP/Newps/First thread.../Second thread.../etc


Montblack

So, are Newp and Montblack the same person? Can Newp really work in an
ATC facility and not know how those Vipers got to a VFR traffic
pattern somewhere?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

("Ed Rasimus" wrote)
[snip]
So, are Newp and Montblack the same person?


Hmm? At an FAA average of 170 lbs each ...that would explain, much.


Montblack :-)(-:

Ed Rasimus wrote:



So, are Newp and Montblack the same person?

Yep, both from the Twin Cities. One smart enough to leave.


Can Newp really work in an
ATC facility and not know how those Vipers got to a VFR traffic
pattern somewhere?

They got to the VFR traffic pattern after calling me up about 30 miles
out and requesting touch and go's. They were VFR at the time. They do
a few touch and go's and then depart VFR. About 10 miles out I
terminate them and they go on their merry way. This is SOP.

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:43:16 -0600, Newps wrote:



Ed Rasimus wrote:



So, are Newp and Montblack the same person?

Yep, both from the Twin Cities. One smart enough to leave.


Can Newp really work in an
ATC facility and not know how those Vipers got to a VFR traffic
pattern somewhere?

They got to the VFR traffic pattern after calling me up about 30 miles
out and requesting touch and go's. They were VFR at the time. They do
a few touch and go's and then depart VFR. About 10 miles out I
terminate them and they go on their merry way. This is SOP.

Trust me, they departed their home station on an IFR flight plan. And
when their "merry way" got them back to home station, they were
handled by approach control and either routed into an instrument
recovery or enroute descent to VFR traffic.

There is a lot of VFR operation by the military. Training couldn't be
conducted any other way. And, as you know, a lot of military training
is done in airspace that is other than "Restricted"--When the other
airspace is above the positive control altitude, it really isn't an
issue, since all other traffic will be on IFR routing and will not
transit the airspace. It's only below APC where GA traffic can wander
along VFR, off-airways and with possible conflict.

When those GA aircraft are aware of the other users of the airspace,
the conflicts are minimal. Accidents can and do happen, and when
someone dies it is unfortunate.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

Ed Rasimus wrote:



Trust me, they departed their home station on an IFR flight plan.

No, they do not always do this.



And
when their "merry way" got them back to home station, they were
handled by approach control and either routed into an instrument
recovery or enroute descent to VFR traffic.

Right they descended to their airport like they descended into mine. VFR.