GA airport in Paris

Check/ Tip: Even if someone took some classes back in school and speak second
etc. languages a bit, that doesn't mean that they necessarily feel comfortable
speaking it, particularly to a stranger who may talk fast, have a different

I think this is not about arrogance at all. I've been learning
foreign languages all my life, and spent decent amount of time
living in France. My overall impression is that an average 20-40
year old person that has some kind of higher education can communicate
in English on a level that is sufficient for a basic everyday
information exchange. Yes, far from perfect, but sufficient.

The problem I believe is in a typical French perfectionism: people are
so disgusted and embarrassed by their own self-perceived poor performance
that speaking English becomes a dreadful ordeal.

Not willing to do this for you in a shop or in a post office is one thing,
but ignoring you on the air is completely different. In aviation, communication
is vital, and I believe that not willing to go a little bit out of your way
to help the other guy hoping that someone else might do it, or just simply
ignoring the situation as a nuisance, is not acceptable.

This may be a little far-fetched analogy, but imagine hearing some
really really thick Asian or German accent -- barely intelligible -- on
the air here in the States. Would you -- even for a moment -- consider
ignoring the guy simply on the grounds that you'd find it very annoying
trying to figure out what he's saying, and you will probably have to repeat
yourself a few times before he understands your reply?

So, in essence, my point is: responding to communications is not about
courtesy or doing a favor; it's about safety, and the only legitimate
reason for not doing it would be if you can't, i.e. genuinely do not
understand the transmission at all.



Andrey

Owen, are you saying that pilots in other countries are not required to
learn English to get their license?

Depends what you mean by 'other countries.' Many countries predominantly do
not
speak English and naturally English is not required to fly airplanes in many
countries. In the USA, FAA does require US certificated pilots know English,
and pilots from other places should be able to speak the dominant language in
USA, English. English is theoretically spoken by ATC around the world in ICAO
compliant nations.

Thank you Rolf and Owen.
I learned something today.
I had always (incorrectly) believed that English proficiency was
required by all countries to acquire a pilot's license.

There is a proposed rule in ICAO that demands all licensed pilots to be able
to communicate in English up to level 4.

This is supposed to mean that you must be able to conduct a normal
conversation on everyday topics.

I believe this is to be issued any license apart from any local National
PPL.

AOPA have tried to work against this, but as far as I know have not
succeded, so this will come sooner or later.
However, I have heard that the new new regianal European license may be
excempt from this rule, however this is not yet been decided.

Looks like new times for us hobby fliers....no prob for me, as we here in
Norway have very early English education in School, and people generally
speak English well, but I think this will make a big difference in other
countries without the tradition of learning English as a second language.

Frode



"Larry Dighera" skrev i melding
...
On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:17:31 +0200, "Frode Berg"
wrote in :

Made me think the French don't know English very well....

Not near as well as the Dutch.

LFPN, LFPL, LFPE and LFPT

Will investigate those!

You'll find the VACs he
http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv....set_aip_uk.htm

BTW, Paris has an excellent public transport system. Transfer from the
airfield to downtown won't be a problem.

Stefan

Andrey Serbinenko schrieb:

The problem I believe is in a typical French perfectionism: people are
so disgusted and embarrassed by their own self-perceived poor performance
that speaking English becomes a dreadful ordeal.

They rather are disgusted by people walking in and boldly starting to
chatter English and expecting everybody to understand them. It often
helps a lot if you start by modestly asking whether somebody understands
English.

Stefan

Stefan wrote:

They rather are disgusted by people walking in and boldly starting to
chatter English and expecting everybody to understand them. It often
helps a lot if you start by modestly asking whether somebody understands
English.

Right. My comment was made under assumption that all normal requirements for
politeness and civility have been satisfied. So, factoring in what you've
just said, I can rephrase it: even though you're starting out by modestly
asking if somebody understands English, in many cases you'll find that people
are being reluctant admitting their English abilities in an attempt to avoid
having to communicate with you in English and show their bad pronunciation and
grammar mistakes, and if you leave them no other choice, they can be quite
irritated, and much less helpful than you could expect had you spoken their
native language.

Andrey



Stefan

Andrey Serbinenko schrieb:

in many cases you'll find that people
are being reluctant admitting their English abilities in an attempt to avoid
having to communicate with you in English and show their bad pronunciation and

I don't think this is the reason. My feeling always was that some people
just wanted to be left alone, using the language problem as an excuse,
which they can't if you speak their language, but maybe I was totally wrong.

Stefan