Leaving the community

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
...

So which is it? Is the poll a fact or nearly a fact?


I've already said. Please keep up. The poll is a fact.

The poll is not a fact. It is potentially a close approximation of a fact.


They are 100%
correct about the fact they represent.

They are almost never correct about the fact they are trying to represent.

You pushed a button, Cecil. I see this kind of statement repeated with
sickening frequency

Comparing gay folks to "colored" people is just utter bullsquat. If I
were black, I'd smack people who say this upside the face. If you weren't
such a generally nice feller, this honkey would wanna smack you.

I understand, why. Often when people are confronted with the facts that
their feelings are colored by bigotry of one type or another, their first
impulse is to vehemently deny it.

Black folks suffered brutally for hundreds of years right here in America.
Many still suffer today from generations of whip-toting, slave-owning,
water-cannon-wielding white folks denying them basic, God given,
Constitutional rights to equal treatment by their representative
government.

But they DON"T have equal rights. If their lifetime partner is in the
hospital they have NO legal visiting rights as a spouse would. When their
loved one dies they have NO right to insurance like a 'regular' spouse
would -despite spending decades together as a couple. The list goes on....
This is discrimination Jim and even though they may not be black still makes
it just as wrong and ugly. They don't even have the right to be buried with
their loved one. Sounds like a second class citizen to me, Jim!


Not one should is denying gay folks their constitutional rights to
practice their behavior in private . . . or even in public. They can
vote. They can get elected to office. They can hold powerful positions
in the media and corporate America.

Look above Jim,,,, you REALLY just haven't got a clue.... There are MANY
other rights that they don't have and it all comes from persons like you who
are so afraid that the existence of a gay couple might be a threat to your
sexual orientation or someone else's. Bigotry, Jim,,, not over color, in
your case, but the sexual preference of consenting adults. Why do you give
a flying fish (substitution here) ????? WHAT are you SO afraid of? Your
wife knows you are a straight man - are you afraid that if you agree that
others deserve civil right too, that somehow your sexual orientation will be
questioned? Balderdash!


Hell, they can even fly a high wing airplanes.

But they can't get married and they can't fly low wing planes.

You're right (so far) about the married part, but I know a lesbian couple
who own a Piper Cherokee 140 (definitely a low-wing airplane). Wouldn't you
agree?

That's just
they way it is.

To say that "Denying sexually aberrant citizens 'marital' status is akin
to human rights abuses endured by black Americans" is an affront to my,
and your, intelligence.

Bigotry is such an ugly thing,,,, it really doesn't suit, you, Jim. I
never in my wildest dreams pegged you as a bigot


--
Jim Fisher

*"Sexually aberrant" is defined as a behavior that is outside the norm.
Homosexuality might become a "normal" behavior in the distant future but
for now it is an aberration, pure and simple.

Oral activity (as well as other practices of straight couples) between
consenting heterosexual or homosexual adults still falls under the sodomy
laws of many states to this day, using aberration and 'non-procreative
activity' as the measure.

Here's hoping you have a clue.....

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Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

Is that right? The heterosexual divorce rate is about .40 percent. What
is it for homosexual marriages, Frank?

--
Jim Fisher

Hard to tell, Jim..... Bigots won't let them find out!

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Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"

No, it is just different. Calling it aberrant puts the judgment
of 'improper' on it. Your opinions aren't axiomatic, Jim. Most
people in the US used to look on interracial marriage as
aberrant. Opinions have changed...not axiomatic.

Succinct and to the point! Most excellent reply!

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=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Terry Bolands" wrote in message
om...

Earl Grieda wrote:

Please provide a referance to back up your etymological evolution of these
terms.

Look up "militia" in the OED for starters.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

Cecil Chapman wrote:

I go back to what I said before. The average citizen has NO need to have
armor piercing bullets (or rounds that will effectively do the same).

And they don't have any. The big problem is people like Boxer who label commonly used
ammunition "armor piercing" and play people like you for suckers.

Any
cop-friend will tell you is to get a shotgun for home protection, you just
point in the 'general direction' and you'll hit the intruder.

Bull****! A shotgun hits where you point it, and you'd better make damn sure you're
pointing it exactly where you want it to hit. The shot pattern from my 12 gauge will
be about 2" wide at 20'. Point that "in the general direction" of somebody, you're
just going to punch holes in the walls.

I've just been saying that Joe Bob down the street
doesn't need a shoulder fired missile, armor piercing bullets, automatic
weapons to defend his/her home.

And these are not available in the U.S. and have not been for many decades.

But,,,, an AK-47???

The semi-automatic version of the AK-47 is a fine weapon for hunting an animal that
weighs about 180 pounds, especially in brush. That's a deer, by the way.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

The reason most intelligent people don't throw "homophobe" around is because
they actually know what it means, which you obviously don't. Homophobia
refers to a fear of homosexuals or prejudice toward homosexual. Go back and
take another look at my original post and tell me where I exhibited any
homophobia. If you still see it, have some of your liberal dogma drained off
and replaced with brains, and you should be able to get it.

You mentioned a black man running for governor in Virginia, and people
saying they wouldn't vote for "one of them". Well, the man's name was Doug
Wilder, and I lived in Richmond when he was running. None of my friends had
any problem voting for him, but the fact that a lot of my friends were black
might have had something to do with it!

But Governor Wilder won, so there must not have been too many people
unwilling to vote for him. And when he was inaugurated, there was a large
parade which passed right by my apartment. It was planned, but there just
happened to be three naked lesbians sitting around my living room, and when
we saw the parade the women thought it would be great fun to lean out of my
window and flash the Governor. The Governor, the State Police, everybody was
staring at my window and waving.

A few days later I was in the bar next to my apartment where the state
legislators hung out, and Governor Wilder came in. Someone introduced me to
him, and I told him that the flashing was being done from my apartment. He
was laughing big time, and he told me he was pretty excited about being
elected, but he was trying to be somewhat restrained during the parade, and
then he looked up and saw wall-to-wall titties and he was afraid of falling
out of the car. He called one of his aides over and jokingly asked if there
were any more Cabinet positions because they definitely needed me in the
administration. He then told the aide to give me a business card, I gave him
mine, and the Governor told me if I ever needed any assistance dealing with
state government I should call his aide and he would get me taken care of. A
couple of times I did call the aide about problems I was having with
governmental agencies, and he got things cleared right up.

I also used to spend a lot of time in a bar called "Babes", which was about
the largest lesbian bar in Virginia outside of the DC metro area. They
really liked having me in there and constantly comped me drinks. They liked
me because I'm a fairly large guy, I didn't hit on the customers, and I
could calmly explain things to the occasional group of straight guys who
came in and thought they had died and gone to heaven when they saw a bunch
of women shooting pool with their boobs hanging out.

I live in Chicago now, and we have a neighborhood known as "Boy's Town",
which is about the third or forth largest gay "district" in the US. I live
in a high-rise about four blocks from there. We have 14 apartments on my
floor: one apartment is occupied by a single straight woman, one is occupied
by a lesbian couple, my girlfriend and I occupy one, and the other 11 are
occupied by either single gay males or gay male couples. Additionally, about
25% of the rest of the building is occupied by gay males.

I talk to a lot of gay people and a lot of black people every day.

I was initially raised in an unprejudiced home, but when I started junior
high in Arkansas I picked up on the bigotry that most of the kids around me
possessed. But I got involved in some civil rights activities and gay rights
activities and got rid of the bias. But I did it by thinking and talking to
people, not by just sitting there and letting someone force-feed liberal
dogma to me.






"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...
"Homophobe"; the last refuge of the village idiot.

Ahh, yes. The ad hominem attack. The last refuge of the person without a
legitimate argument.

I've never heard an intelligent person use that term.

Not my fault. Plenty of intelligent people do.

Cecil Chapman wrote:

Right,,, I got that joe-bob,,,, I was referring to the size of the
ammunition it fires....

So, tell us, little man. What size is that?

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
om...
Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Yeah,,, unlike you I'm not a fearful paranoid, crowding arms into his
basement because he is SO sure he is going to 'liberate' the world should
the government ever (however unlikely) turn against its' citizens.. With
the weaponry our government has, it would squash you like an insignificant
bug on the windshield before you could exhale.

I am not a fearful paranoid... (redundant - just like the three commas you
have there). I am not crowding arms into my basement. I exercise my right
to bear arms. I would also like to defend myself if it ever comes to that.
(most likely against some bad guys you liberals let out of jail and allowed
to live for free on gubment dole, though he may come looking for extra money
in my house and I would like to protect myself) Did you perhaps consider
that people who own firearms might be rational, or do you believe all the
hype and misinformation you see and hear?

Your ill-advised logic and misunderstanding of firearms is baffling. Your
point was that it is ok to have a shotgun or a hunting rifle, but not an
AK47/"assault" rifle. What logic made you come to that conclusion? A
typical hunting rifle is more firepower than the AKs available in gun
stores.

Wake up.

The following is one of my favorites, though it is a paraphrase of the
original...

A vote for gun control is a vote for more women to get raped.



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Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
om...
Sorry Cecil, I won't argue the amendment. I let it stand on it's own as
interpreted by the SC. But when someone tries to misinterpret the meaning
in
order to further their agenda, I speak up.


But Jeff,,, I have no agenda... There is no 'plot' against you,,,, no
'secret conspiracy' that I'm trying to pull on you. jeesh "paranoia
WILL destroy ya" grin. I'm just trying to approach the issue,
logically. Also, the Supreme Court upheld the right to bear arms but in
their decision it was not stated that the reason for supporting the right
was to assure that the citizens of the U.S. could overthrow the
government. Goodness, Jeff!

Change the Constitution if you can, but trying to alter the original
views
of Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, et al, by incorrectly using their words
is
a sure way to invalidate your argument and doom your cause to failure.

I'm not trying to change the Constitution (unlike Bush and Ashcroft who
have tried to strip away the most basic guarantees with the 'Patriot'
Act). I haven't altered any original views, at all.

But,,,, and I'm asking you to be rational here; do you REALLY think the
reason for the second amendment was that the founding fathers wanted to
assure that the citizenry would have the ability to overthrow the new
government that they were working SO hard to put into place? Jeff?
Really??? Isn't a more likely explanation that they recognized that their
new country didn't have a lot of money to fund purchasing weapons for a
formal army and that they wanted to insure that its' citizens had weaponry
so that they could be called up to fight in the event the new country was
attacked? .. "A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of
a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be
infringed"


You need to get a clue.


--
If their intent was just that citizens had the right to bear arms, they
wouldn't have the line that comes before it. What is unreasonable about
that?

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Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -