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#1
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![]() I'm sure you are correct, and I seriously thought about taking off, but on a second solo, with all the flying in the circuits so closely pinned to airspeeds, I'm glad I didn't. I certainly wouldn't have felt confident about knowing how far I was from stall speed on final...... As a 35 year flight instructor, I feel that you received inadequate pre-solo training. The pattern can (and perhaps should) be flown by the use of pitch and power only. Set the power and pitch correctly and the airspeed will be there. No student of mine has ever soloed without flying an entire lesson (in and out of the pattern) with the entire instrument panel completely covered except for the tachometer. RPM settings....Takeoff and climb to pattern altitude...Full Power, Downwind in a C-172, about 2100 RPM...who cares what the airspeed is? Abeam the touchdown spot, set 1500 RPM, lower the nose and keep the nose down, lower first noch flaps, who cares what the airspeed is? I'll bet that it settles out at 85kts. On base leg, second notch of flaps keeping the nose down and the airspeed WILL back right down to 75kts. Turn final, keep the nose down (still with 1500 RPM) and drop final flap and the airspeed WILL drop to 65kts. Who needs an airspeed indicator? Only an inexperienced flight instructor! They scare easily. :-) I still don't understand your "I ran out of rudder" comment, the faster you go, the more rudder control you have. BTW, here in the USofA, ultralights aren't even required to have such things as altimeters and airspeed indicators.....and mine didn't. Bob Moore CFI ATP B-707 B-727 PanAm (retired) |
#2
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![]() Bob Moore wrote: I still don't understand your "I ran out of rudder" comment, the faster you go, the more rudder control you have. Just trying to explain what it felt like. I'm not sure that cessna 150s behave too well at 70knots and full power being held down on the tarmac by a novice pilot who is still waiting for the ASI to show something. I suspect I'd do better next time. |
#3
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Steph wrote
Just trying to explain what it felt like. I'm not sure that cessna 150s behave too well at 70knots and full power being held down on the tarmac by a novice pilot who is still waiting for the ASI to show something. I suspect I'd do better next time. Ah-Ha...wheelbarrowing...it does become difficult to control. Bob Moore |
#4
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![]() Bob Moore wrote: As a 35 year flight instructor, I feel that you received inadequate pre-solo training. The pattern can (and perhaps should) be flown by the use of pitch and power only. Set the power and pitch correctly and the airspeed will be there. No student of mine has ever soloed without flying an entire lesson (in and out of the pattern) with the entire instrument panel completely covered except for the tachometer. RPM settings....Takeoff and climb to pattern altitude...Full Power, Downwind in a C-172, about 2100 RPM...who cares what the airspeed is? Abeam the touchdown spot, set 1500 RPM, lower the nose and keep the nose down, lower first noch flaps, who cares what the airspeed is? I'll bet that it settles out at 85kts. On base leg, second notch of flaps keeping the nose down and the airspeed WILL back right down to 75kts. Turn final, keep the nose down (still with 1500 RPM) and drop final flap and the airspeed WILL drop to 65kts. Who needs an airspeed indicator? Only an inexperienced flight instructor! They scare easily. :-) I still don't understand your "I ran out of rudder" comment, the faster you go, the more rudder control you have. I'm sure you're correct, Bob, but my understanding is that stalls in the circuit are a well-recognised cause of accidents? If so, it might not be as automatic as you suggest for a novice. |
#5
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Steph wrote
I'm sure you're correct, Bob, but my understanding is that stalls in the circuit are a well-recognised cause of accidents? If so, it might not be as automatic as you suggest for a novice. With 1500 RPM and the nose below the horizon, the airplane WILL NOT stall. :-) There are some qualifications to this generalized statement, learn what the runway looks like on a stabilized approach and just always put the nose in that same position every time, it WILL NOT stall. Bob Moore |
#6
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In article , rmoore16
@tampabay.rr.com says... Steph wrote I'm sure you're correct, Bob, but my understanding is that stalls in the circuit are a well-recognised cause of accidents? If so, it might not be as automatic as you suggest for a novice. With 1500 RPM and the nose below the horizon, the airplane WILL NOT stall. :-) There are some qualifications to this generalized statement, learn what the runway looks like on a stabilized approach and just always put the nose in that same position every time, it WILL NOT stall. I think the danger time is that turn onto final - too late, therefore too steep, student gets fixaxted on the approach and the airspeed decays in the turn. I mean... how many planes have stalled in that turn in history??? -- Duncan |
#7
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moore in Tampa Bay wrote:
I think the danger time is that turn onto final - too late, therefore too steep, student gets fixaxted on the approach and the airspeed decays in the turn. I mean... how many planes have stalled in that turn in history??? -- Duncan The turn from base to final is a bad place to stall. When someone stalls inadvertently on that turn it is rarely, if ever, because they got too steep in the bank. Pilots these days have been so thoroughly brainwashed that they will NOT bank greater than thirty degrees in the traffic pattern. When they find they are overshooting the turn and will be wide of the runway they carefully hold their thirty degree maximum bank like they were taught and then rush the turn by pouncing on the inside rudder to get the nose around quicker. This doesn't really stall the whole airplane. It only stalls the inside wing. The outside wing, which is still flying fine, then proceeds to fly up and over the fuselage until it is the inside wing. Unfortunately the resulting inverted position generally results in a quick split ess maneuver that soon terminates when the airplane lands from the inverted dive that results. This is not actually a spin because the airplane generally contacts the ground at high speed before the spin has time to properly develop. Even a fortyfive degree bank only increases the stall speed by about fourteen percent. The normal approach speed is about thirty percent above stall speed. Consequently even a fortyfive degree bank in the pattern still leaves you a fifteen percent margin. In a Cessna that is about five knots. Of course, I must admit, I see few private pilots these days who can hold their airspeed within five knots in a fortyfive degree bank. :-) Highflyer Highflight Aviation Services Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY ) |
#8
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I mean... how many planes have stalled in that turn in history???
Personally, I have lost three good friends due to stalls on base to final. Two in an RV-6 in 1989 and one in a T-6 in 1999. |
#9
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Hi Bob,
Since you have 35 years experience as an instructore, perhaps you can help me. I am attending flying school PART61 and jsut fly one time. But aI was able to land the airplane by my self, thanks to Flight SImulator. Based on my 15 years experience on the Flight Simulator, do you have any input as far as a program that fits with me? The school offered me a standart program for a student that have zero knowledge about airplane, and I believe I am about one or two step ahead of them. I am familiar with S Turn, Steep Turn, Lazy 8, Traffic Patern, Rectagle, Touch and Go etc. I also Familiar with the preflight check, VFR, IFR Learning ADF, NDP and also using approach plate. On my first flight lesson, I learned Climb, Descend, Turn and Straight and level perfectly and plus landed the cessna 152 right in the middle. Based on your experience, Could you please give me an input regarding a type of program that can be customize for me. Of course i am hoping that my skilll from Fligth Sim will safe me money big time. The flying school will teach me a radio comm and flight patern after 20 hour dual flight or meeting number 20th. What happen while during the lesson, my instructure passed out and I have no idea waht to say on the radio. Thank you Bob for your time Thank you Bob, I appreciate your time. Bob Moore wrote: I'm sure you are correct, and I seriously thought about taking off, but on a second solo, with all the flying in the circuits so closely pinned to airspeeds, I'm glad I didn't. I certainly wouldn't have felt confident about knowing how far I was from stall speed on final...... As a 35 year flight instructor, I feel that you received inadequate pre-solo training. The pattern can (and perhaps should) be flown by the use of pitch and power only. Set the power and pitch correctly and the airspeed will be there. No student of mine has ever soloed without flying an entire lesson (in and out of the pattern) with the entire instrument panel completely covered except for the tachometer. RPM settings....Takeoff and climb to pattern altitude...Full Power, Downwind in a C-172, about 2100 RPM...who cares what the airspeed is? Abeam the touchdown spot, set 1500 RPM, lower the nose and keep the nose down, lower first noch flaps, who cares what the airspeed is? I'll bet that it settles out at 85kts. On base leg, second notch of flaps keeping the nose down and the airspeed WILL back right down to 75kts. Turn final, keep the nose down (still with 1500 RPM) and drop final flap and the airspeed WILL drop to 65kts. Who needs an airspeed indicator? Only an inexperienced flight instructor! They scare easily. :-) I still don't understand your "I ran out of rudder" comment, the faster you go, the more rudder control you have. BTW, here in the USofA, ultralights aren't even required to have such things as altimeters and airspeed indicators.....and mine didn't. Bob Moore CFI ATP B-707 B-727 PanAm (retired) |
#10
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Based on my experience your skill with Flight Sim will give you so many bad
habits to unlearn and overcome before you can fly a real airplane safely that it will take you considerably longer to achieve the competency required to a license. Highflyer Highflight Aviation Services Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY ) wrote in message oups.com... Hi Bob, Since you have 35 years experience as an instructore, perhaps you can help me. I am attending flying school PART61 and jsut fly one time. But aI was able to land the airplane by my self, thanks to Flight SImulator. Based on my 15 years experience on the Flight Simulator, do you have any input as far as a program that fits with me? The school offered me a standart program for a student that have zero knowledge about airplane, and I believe I am about one or two step ahead of them. I am familiar with S Turn, Steep Turn, Lazy 8, Traffic Patern, Rectagle, Touch and Go etc. I also Familiar with the preflight check, VFR, IFR Learning ADF, NDP and also using approach plate. On my first flight lesson, I learned Climb, Descend, Turn and Straight and level perfectly and plus landed the cessna 152 right in the middle. Based on your experience, Could you please give me an input regarding a type of program that can be customize for me. Of course i am hoping that my skilll from Fligth Sim will safe me money big time. The flying school will teach me a radio comm and flight patern after 20 hour dual flight or meeting number 20th. What happen while during the lesson, my instructure passed out and I have no idea waht to say on the radio. Thank you Bob for your time Thank you Bob, I appreciate your time. Bob Moore wrote: I'm sure you are correct, and I seriously thought about taking off, but on a second solo, with all the flying in the circuits so closely pinned to airspeeds, I'm glad I didn't. I certainly wouldn't have felt confident about knowing how far I was from stall speed on final...... As a 35 year flight instructor, I feel that you received inadequate pre-solo training. The pattern can (and perhaps should) be flown by the use of pitch and power only. Set the power and pitch correctly and the airspeed will be there. No student of mine has ever soloed without flying an entire lesson (in and out of the pattern) with the entire instrument panel completely covered except for the tachometer. RPM settings....Takeoff and climb to pattern altitude...Full Power, Downwind in a C-172, about 2100 RPM...who cares what the airspeed is? Abeam the touchdown spot, set 1500 RPM, lower the nose and keep the nose down, lower first noch flaps, who cares what the airspeed is? I'll bet that it settles out at 85kts. On base leg, second notch of flaps keeping the nose down and the airspeed WILL back right down to 75kts. Turn final, keep the nose down (still with 1500 RPM) and drop final flap and the airspeed WILL drop to 65kts. Who needs an airspeed indicator? Only an inexperienced flight instructor! They scare easily. :-) I still don't understand your "I ran out of rudder" comment, the faster you go, the more rudder control you have. BTW, here in the USofA, ultralights aren't even required to have such things as altimeters and airspeed indicators.....and mine didn't. Bob Moore CFI ATP B-707 B-727 PanAm (retired) |
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