Cloud Flying

Brian, I have my FAR/AIM book open. In part 91, give me the glider
specific regs that tell me how to fly a glider, on an IFR clearance in
the US. I just reread the requirements for an instrument rating, and
nowhere does the word glider show up in FAR 61.65. Shawn, help us out
here.

F2, thanks for your input, but were shaking down the US regs here.


Brian wrote:
I fully understood that we were talking IFR Flight.

The only additional requirement I can find for IFR flight in Class G
airspace is that the pilot be instrument rated and Current. Note: that
an airplane instrument rating is valid in a glider.

I was recently flying with a group of 15 glider pilots I believe at
least 3 of these pilots also had instrument ratings.

In Class D & E airspace a Clearance is a also required.

In Class ABC Airspace a Transponder is required with the current
inspections.

I am looking forward to seeing his book on cloud flying, This is
defiently a topic that does not get much attention in the US and as
result there seems to be a lot of misinformation about it as evidenced
by this thread.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL






snoop wrote:
Son, we're talking IFR flight here. Try reading the first post.

snoop wrote:
Brian, I have my FAR/AIM book open. In part 91, give me the glider
specific regs that tell me how to fly a glider, on an IFR clearance in
the US. I just reread the requirements for an instrument rating, and
nowhere does the word glider show up in FAR 61.65. Shawn, help us out
here.

F2, thanks for your input, but were shaking down the US regs here.


Snoop, those are US regs! What reg are you trying to "shake down?" I
quoted the exact regs that clearly legalize IFR flying in gliders in
the USA.

Chris Fleming, F2

It may take me bit to remember where the actual authorization for a
airplane instrument rating to qualify for a glider rating is.

As a start though FAR 61.57c2 tells you how to remain or get instrument
current for gliders.

Brian

snoop wrote:
Brian, I have my FAR/AIM book open. In part 91, give me the glider
specific regs that tell me how to fly a glider, on an IFR clearance in
the US. I just reread the requirements for an instrument rating, and
nowhere does the word glider show up in FAR 61.65. Shawn, help us out
here.

F2, thanks for your input, but were shaking down the US regs here.

Brian wrote:
It may take me bit to remember where the actual authorization for a
airplane instrument rating to qualify for a glider rating is.

As a start though FAR 61.57c2 tells you how to remain or get instrument
current for gliders.

Brian



Brian,

CFAR § 61.3(e)(3) states that to fly a glider under IFR, the PIC needs
to hold an airplane instrument rating and a glider rating:

§ 61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.
(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil

aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:
(3) For a glider, a pilot certificate with a glider category rating and

an airplane instrument rating.

Chris Fleming, F2

It didn't take me as long to find at as I thought it might:

FAR 61.3e3

(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil
aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:

(1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and
instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane,
helicopter, or powered-lift being flown;

(2) An airline transport pilot certificate with the appropriate
aircraft category, class, and type rating (if required) for the
aircraft being flown;

(3) For a glider, a pilot certificate with a glider category rating and
an airplane instrument rating; or

Brian

It didn't take me as long to find at as I thought it might:

FAR 61.3e3

(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil
aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:

(1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and
instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane,
helicopter, or powered-lift being flown;

(2) An airline transport pilot certificate with the appropriate
aircraft category, class, and type rating (if required) for the
aircraft being flown;

(3) For a glider, a pilot certificate with a glider category rating and
an airplane instrument rating; or

Brian

Good find. That's what I saw, in the same vein, with 61.57, how to stay
current, but the requirements for an instrument rating still leave us
hanging out there, as mentioned earlier. Now we need the operational or
part 91 end of it. How to do it. Hang in there guys, Shawn, c'mon buddy
we need you to help here.

Brian wrote:
It didn't take me as long to find at as I thought it might:

FAR 61.3e3

(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil
aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:

(1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and
instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane,
helicopter, or powered-lift being flown;

(2) An airline transport pilot certificate with the appropriate
aircraft category, class, and type rating (if required) for the
aircraft being flown;

(3) For a glider, a pilot certificate with a glider category rating and
an airplane instrument rating; or

Brian

snoop wrote:
Good find. That's what I saw, in the same vein, with 61.57, how to stay
current, but the requirements for an instrument rating still leave us
hanging out there, as mentioned earlier. Now we need the operational or
part 91 end of it. How to do it. Hang in there guys, Shawn, c'mon buddy
we need you to help here.


Snoop-

What are you talking about?! Ask a specific question! Flying a glider
under IFR is EXACTLY THE SAME as flying an airplane under IFR. That is
why an instrument rating in airplanes is required to fly a glider under
IFR. Here's how you do it:

1. File the flight plan.
2. Receive the ATC clearance.
3. Fly the glider!

If your flight is intended to be local in nature, you request a block
clearance both laterally and vertically, and remain within your
clearance limits. If you are flying cross country, you receive a route
clearance with authorization to deviate up to x miles left and right of
course within a block altitude limit.

If you already have your instument-airplane rating, and a few hundered
hours of instrument experinece, you should already know all of this.
If you don't, then you shouldn't consider flying a glider IFR.

Chris Fleming, F2

Chris,

Specifically, where does the clearance begin, and end. ATC is going to
want a starting point and an exit point. Going back to my earlier note,
how do you get up and down? The cloud layer closes in below you while
your going x country IFR in a pure glider, how do you legally get down.
You are coming down somewhere, I don't have an argument there, but ATC
has a big manual called the TERPS Manual that they have to operate by.
It is their ball and chain that they operate by, and if they've issued
us a clearance, they have some pretty tight parameters that they want
us to fly by in their airspace.

Let's say that your here at my club in Texas. My specific question here
would be how would you file the route portion. Let's say you use a fix
near TSA to start. Now, how do I file the altitude? A block is probably
the best way, as you mentioned, but how do you guarantee your local
controllers that your going to remain in that block, especially if the
bottom fills in below you while your cruising. This is why I'm a bit
suspect that there are some loose ends to flying gliders IFR, from a
totally legal standpoint.

I beg to differ that it is nothing like flying an airplane IFR.

Thanks for the input



Fox Two wrote:
snoop wrote:
Good find. That's what I saw, in the same vein, with 61.57, how to stay
current, but the requirements for an instrument rating still leave us
hanging out there, as mentioned earlier. Now we need the operational or
part 91 end of it. How to do it. Hang in there guys, Shawn, c'mon buddy
we need you to help here.


Snoop-

What are you talking about?! Ask a specific question! Flying a glider
under IFR is EXACTLY THE SAME as flying an airplane under IFR. That is
why an instrument rating in airplanes is required to fly a glider under
IFR. Here's how you do it:

1. File the flight plan.
2. Receive the ATC clearance.
3. Fly the glider!

If your flight is intended to be local in nature, you request a block
clearance both laterally and vertically, and remain within your
clearance limits. If you are flying cross country, you receive a route
clearance with authorization to deviate up to x miles left and right of
course within a block altitude limit.

If you already have your instument-airplane rating, and a few hundered
hours of instrument experinece, you should already know all of this.
If you don't, then you shouldn't consider flying a glider IFR.

Chris Fleming, F2